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Original poster

Oh Prince Andrew is getting SUED by Virginia Robert's

999 replies

LaurieFairyCake · 09/08/2021 23:54

That will be interesting

OP posts:
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5
brokenbiscuitsx · 12/08/2021 08:29

@Roussette and others who have said the same… Down thread I said that I thought Virginia was more worldly wise than she lets on, and that she knew what she was getting into. And was shot down in flames. If only I'd been as eloquent as PurpleOkapi. What I meant was, well, the same as PurpleOkapi really. I also said that she didn't look too unhappy in that photo, and was similarly shot down

There’s a photo of me stood next to a family member when I was 11, who continually had sexually abused me for years and I’m smiling. I look happy. No one would know (and didn’t know)

I was scared.

I kindly suggest that unless you know how it feels in that situation or know the lengths that girls/women go to protect themselves in these situations, that you say nothing.

Your words are hurtful and ignorant.

Roussette · 12/08/2021 08:31

brokenbiscuitsx
Exactly. And Flowers to you.. you have put it so well.

Maireas · 12/08/2021 08:33

@brokenbiscuitsx - what a harrowing post.
I hope that you're able to heal and have a better present than past. 🌻
Some people are just ignorant. Others willfully excuse the behaviour of men by victim blaming.

SpindleWhorl · 12/08/2021 08:33

I just saw that Mail Online is reporting that 'a source close to Prince Charles' has indicated that there's no way back to royal life for Andrew after this.

It actually sounds like Charles is briefing against his brother. It's finally hit home to the 'senior royals' how much trouble Andrew is in - and that his strategy of silence, non-cooperation and memory loss, while comfortable for Andrew, is disastrous for the monarchy.

Charles appears to have his own strategy now - to create distance between the monarchy that he will inherit and his brother Andrew.

brokenbiscuitsx · 12/08/2021 08:34

Also it’s total misogyny at power here, the belief teenage girls knew what they were doing. I mean women have been painted as harlots, temptresses and what not since the biblical times. It really is obvious what’s at play here.

brokenbiscuitsx · 12/08/2021 08:39

[quote Maireas]@brokenbiscuitsx - what a harrowing post.
I hope that you're able to heal and have a better present than past. 🌻
Some people are just ignorant. Others willfully excuse the behaviour of men by victim blaming.[/quote]
Thank you, yes I’m ok now 🙂

Smiling is a shield many women use on a day to day basis when trying to diffuse unwanted male attention. It comes from the fear of how they will retaliate. I don’t understand how this is not understood.

SpindleWhorl · 12/08/2021 08:39

@brokenbiscuitsx

Also it’s total misogyny at power here, the belief teenage girls knew what they were doing. I mean women have been painted as harlots, temptresses and what not since the biblical times. It really is obvious what’s at play here.
Absolutely, @brokenbiscuitsx. I remember the horrible word 'tart' being used in the 1970s for any girl - and I mean school age - who wasn't acting like a novice nun. And some adult women were as judgy as anything. It's like they're scared to admit something to themselves about the nature of the world and the people in it.

Maybe their brains don't do complexity.

Smallkeys · 12/08/2021 08:40

The key word is groomed she may at the time been ok with it for a while before realising or it’s only looking back she realised that she was groomed and used and wants justice. So I don’t think a smiling photo is any evidence. I’ve not followed the case is she saying the PA forced her or that PA knew Epstein was forcing her.

Roussette · 12/08/2021 08:40

People on here who don't believe that women are groomed, trafficked and raped should really start to inform themselves

What is sad to me is... people won't go and educate themselves, they won't go and read even the link above I posted. They'll keep their beliefs and not post, they'll just avoid saying what they actually think... that these girls knew what they were doing, they were happy doing it.... look, she's smiling in that picture!

brokenbiscuitsx · 12/08/2021 08:41

@Roussette

brokenbiscuitsx Exactly. And Flowers to you.. you have put it so well.
Thank you. I didn’t realise your post was a quote and I’ve just realised my error so I apologise I tagged you ☺️

Thank you for your kind words Flowers

Whatflavourjellybabyisnice · 12/08/2021 08:44

It'll teach Randy Andy that he isn't above the law (hopefully) but I don't like what it will do to the rest of the family that have done nothing wrong (poor Queen Sad).
I was absolutely outraged about the formal response of Buckingham Palace when they said basically no wrongdoing had taken place. Very narcissistic and backward British attitude.

Roussette · 12/08/2021 08:45

No problem biscuit
Flowers

Perhaps some on here could read this? 5 survivors of Epstein... their story.

www.glamour.com/story/jeffrey-epstein-survivors-roundtable

brokenbiscuitsx · 12/08/2021 08:46

@SpindleWhorl Yes, things haven’t really moved on have they. Women who have this thinking are partly just victims of the misogynistic world we are growing up in as it’s so engrained.

Maireas · 12/08/2021 08:47

@brokenbiscuitsx - "smiling is a shield"
We've all done that to some extent, haven't we? Your point about using it to diffuse male anger or retaliation. We smile, we're polite.
If you've never had this experience, you've been very fortunate.

MotionActivatedDog · 12/08/2021 09:13

It's still not obvious to me why a 17-year-old American being held against her will in an English-speaking country couldn't figure out some way of asking for help. Even on a private jet, they'd all still have to go through some kind of immigration and customs controls, which would involve interacting with uniformed government agents on both ends of the trip.

Do you know, I think you’ve just eradicated human trafficking. Why did no one ever think of just asking for help?? So simple. Can you write down your full name for the award plaque?

dottydodah · 12/08/2021 09:20

BrokenBiscuitsx I am sorry for your ordeal .You are right that so many young girls and women smile as a mask of their pain .Also that they are scared as well . SpindleWhorl I well remember that viewpoint that young girls wearing tight jeans ,short skirts and so on must be "leading men on" and being a tart /little whore and so on .At School my friend telling me about another girl in our class ,who was sleeping with her much older BF, we were about 14 or 15 at the time! Another girl saying she "wasnt surprised"FFS ! Its shocking how bad attitudes were then .

LolaSmiles · 12/08/2021 09:23

I suggest some people on here need to read accounts of grooming gangs and trafficked women in order to inform themselves about what really happens
Unfortunately they won't.
What they'll keep doing is trying to argue their victim blaming whilst pretending to be balanced.
We'll probably have more posts along the same lines that can be paraphrased as:
I'm not saying Andrew is or isn't guilty but (insert victim blaming /minimising statement here). I'm not defending Andrew but (insert victim blaming / minimising statement here). People keep shooting me down in flames but all I'm saying is (insert variations of the above).

It's no wonder many children who've been groomed and exploited fear that adults won't listen to them when according to some adults if there's a photo of you as a teen at a party, that's enough to question your disclosure of abuse.

StapMe · 12/08/2021 09:42

Well, Andrew can be grateful that you lot won't be on any jury deciding this case. You've already decided that he's guilty. Which he may well be, but aren't you supposed to be tried in a court of law first? Come to think of it, Jimmy Saville was never actually tried either. Doesn't mean he wasn't guilty, but it wasn't proven in a court of law.

MotionActivatedDog · 12/08/2021 09:44

Come to think of it, Jimmy Saville was never actually tried either. Doesn't mean he wasn't guilty, but it wasn't proven in a court of law.

I don’t think you’re supporting your argument in the way you think you are Grin

Maireas · 12/08/2021 09:47

We haven't "decided he's guilty".
No. We're discussing the VR case, Epstein, Maxwell, grooming and trafficking.
If Andrew was nothing more than an innocent visitor to the properties, drinking tea and chatting, fine.
You're bringing Jimmy Savile into it.
No, he was never tried in a court of law.
Have you ever wondered why?

Wheretobuy · 12/08/2021 09:49

@knittingaddict

Sone of the posts on here are disgusting and I genuinely can't believe what I'm reading. Have none of you ever heard of power imbalance and it's place in the sexual abuse of young, poor and vulnerable people? There are lots of articles out there and I strongly suggest you read some of them before you embarrass yourselves further.
It is not just that. The palace machinery is out in force too.
KidneyBeans · 12/08/2021 09:50

It's still not obvious to me why a 17-year-old American being held against her will in an English-speaking country couldn't figure out some way of asking for help.
Even on a private jet, they'd all still have to go through some kind of immigration and customs controls, which would involve interacting with uniformed government agents on both ends of the trip.

You sound very uninformed about the psychology of coercion. It's clear that there are lots of things that aren't obvious to you!

What about Elizabeth Smart? She was held in her own country, never trafficked across any borders and regularly interacted with the public - in at least one situation she interacted with a law enforcement officer. Do you believe she wasn't being held against her will?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KidnappingoffElizabethSmart

Why do you think coercive control has been recognised as a form of illegal abuse in any relationships (never mind those with significant wealth, power and age imbalances) if it's so easy to 'walk away'?

That doesn't mean she couldn't have been forced to have sex with Andrew or anyone else, but it does strongly suggest that she wanted to be where she was, with the people she was with, and wasn't being held against her will.

Like Elizabeth Smart you mean? Or Steven Stayner? Do you think they wanted to be with their kidnappers?

What about women in abusive relationships? Why do you think it takes on average 7 attempts for them to leave? After all they can speak English and seek help easily. They're usually resident in their own countries. Why don't they seek help from officials? By your logic intramarital rape should essentially not exist (or at least never occur more than once), but we know that's not true. So why is that? Assuming your assumptions are correct?

Unquestioningly repeating "Trafficking! Trafficking!" as an answer to every question raised by the circumstances isn't doing anyone any favors here.
Neither is ignoring the fact that this is a well-recognised case of human trafficking in order to focus on your own uninformed assumptions. Confused

@PurpleOkapi
I'd be interested in hearing your answers to my questions
Unsurprisingly the rape-apologists @Pixxie7 and @StapMe have popped up to join in to - also feel free to answer my questions too.

It'd be great to see you engaging in deeper cognitive processes than simply 'blame the woman'

Wheretobuy · 12/08/2021 09:50

Come to think of it, Jimmy Saville was never actually tried either. Doesn't mean he wasn't guilty, but it wasn't proven in a court of law.

Now I have read it all.
Mumsnet never ceases to amaze me.

KidneyBeans · 12/08/2021 09:53

@StapMe

Well, Andrew can be grateful that you lot won't be on any jury deciding this case. You've already decided that he's guilty. Which he may well be, but aren't you supposed to be tried in a court of law first? Come to think of it, Jimmy Saville was never actually tried either. Doesn't mean he wasn't guilty, but it wasn't proven in a court of law.
What is your point?

That PA has similarities with a dead paedophile?

Confused
StapMe · 12/08/2021 09:54

@MotionActivatedDog

Come to think of it, Jimmy Saville was never actually tried either. Doesn't mean he wasn't guilty, but it wasn't proven in a court of law.

I don’t think you’re supporting your argument in the way you think you are Grin

I'm not actually arguing. My original post was a question. He says he didn't, she says he did. One of them must be lying, how are they going to prove which one? In a court of law, if you are accused of something, in England at least, you are assumed innocent until you are found guilty.