Code red for humanity -

[54321nought]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58138714

UN climate change report

Climate change is already massive, unstoppable and hugely destructive.

We have to reduce the number of children we are having, reduce the amount of meat fish and dairy we eat, stop driving cars so unnecessarily, stop burning fossil fuel, convert to using renewable energy, stop sending rubbish to landfill, reduce reuse and recycle.

Otherwise the human race is finished. Its as simple as that.

@worriedatthemoment

Op where did covid massively reduce pollution and the birth rate ? All over the world or uk or select countries We as a small island make hardly any difference on our own. I drive to work don't cycle as its dangerous and who wants to sit in wet sweaty clothes all day

all over the world - there were places where the smog had not lifted for years, where inhabitants saw the horizon clearly - China, USA...

I think these things matter too, to send a message to those in power. Otherwise they are a drop in the ocean. We'll only be taken seriously if we're 'walking the walk' as it were.

Greta and co are doing a great job of making the government's pay attention, but still people criticise every move they make.
It's almost as if world powers don't care .
(Obviously they don't)

I meant to quote this, sorry.

Oh clearly you can't quote a quote within a quote. @54321nought I was reply to your latest ones.

Why on earth would they become extinct?! Nobody wants to just "cull" the livestock that we currently have! There'll always be cows, sheep, chickens, etc., just not in the vast numbers that we have today because no human needs to eat meat and dairy 7 or 5 or even 3 days a week.

Exactly, we would just breed far fewer animals, and have far more land available for crops, if everyone just halved the amount of meat and diary they eat.

We would also be very much healthier!

[quote wonderstuff]@PlanDeRaccordement as a species we may well survive, but as a species our numbers have dropped significantly in the past in response to climate changes. Migration is already a contentious issue in this country, we can expect an awful lot more if half the planet becomes uninhabitable.[/quote]
Yup.

@LoveFall

Ok, maybe it was dumb to think about them going extinct, but why would anyone keep them if they are not economic? Where would they live?

And one of the things constantly mentioned is we shouldn't have pets. Or children.

The call to become vegan has never been phrased as we need a certain percentage to eat vegan to help climate change. Isn't it that a vegan never eats meat, fish, dairy or eggs? Can you be a little bit vegan or is it like being a little bit pregnant?

I find it confusing. I am already barely eating meat and only a few eggs a week, but I do have cream in my coffee and I eat cheese. Yet I feel I should become vegan because of climate change.

Maybe the inflexibility of it all is why more people aren't willing to change? Is a joyless life the only way?

Yes of course you don't have to go fully vegan to make a difference. Every time you decide to cut out meat in an individual meal, it helps. I know lots of families where every individual aims to be vegan half the week - so in a family of 4, that is the equivalent of 2 going vegan full time.

It all helps

It's industrial farming that causes the issues. Typically British grass fed cattle and sheep can't be causing the problem. It's the ones housed in big barns, never seeing the light of day and fed on soya that are the problem.
Grassland is an ecosystem in it's own right, and is maintained by grazing animals. Not all land is suitable for arable farming.
Animal manure also protects the topsoil. A few years of only arable (crop growing) many areas will be useless. We need to change industrial farming methods along with other systemic changes.
Fewer humans to feed (and existing humans consuming less) would mean planet can sustain itself.
It's a big compromise though as industrially produced food is cheaper.

@Skybluepinkgiraffe

Oh clearly you can't quote a quote within a quote. *@54321nought* I was reply to your latest ones.

Agriculture is about 10% of uk emissions

Home heating is about 30% of a uk household emissions

Transport is the uks biggest emissions sector , around 35%

@Skybluepinkgiraffe totally agree, I said as much at the beginning of this thread. We need a model that is less focused on consumption. The path to that is to adjust pricing to factor in the true cost of goods or services, by including the cost of repairing damage done by the consumption.
Now this is a blunt instrument, some damage is very difficult to repair, perhaps impossible. But if the cost was high consumption would fall, and there would be an incentive for innovation in production, as well as a reduction in damage.
We also need economic models that reflect wellbeing and sustainability to measure the success of the economy, not just expansion in gdp.

To those who have gone vegan for environmental reasons rather than being animal-friendly, can you honestly say you enjoy the taste of vegan food at the expense of eating something you like to taste? Personally, I find nuts, lentils, hummus, avocado, tofu et al revolting and could not imagine a diet consisting of only food such as that.

Vegetables are lovely though!

Understandably, a lot of worry about what actual impact an individual can make.

Divesting your pension into an ethical/green fund is one of the things you can do, which I haven't seen mentioned yet. Worth doing, as for many people, their pension pot is actually quite a large sum (over time). It's easy to do, just contact your pension provider.

I don't buy the argument 'what's the point, I can't make a difference'. It's the same argument about voting - every vote counts. Same with climate-friendly life choices.

And for those doing everything they can and still feeling hopeless, maybe committing to being more vocal with your friends / family about your climate-friendly choices, and why you're doing it will help normalise being a climate ally.

Can I recommend listening to today's podcast Newscast? First 5 mins is Olympics, but then there's an interview with one of the scientists involved in November's climate summit.
I found it very interesting and easy to understand.

@PurpleVerbena

To those who have gone vegan for environmental reasons rather than being animal-friendly, can you honestly say you enjoy the taste of vegan food at the expense of eating something you like to taste? Personally, I find nuts, lentils, hummus, avocado, tofu et al revolting and could not imagine a diet consisting of only food such as that.

I'm not vegan, but why does it surprise you that different people like different things?

@PurpleVerbena

I am plant based for health, environment and animal cruelty reasons

Since going plant based my diet has got so much better I'm enjoying foods I would never have tried before!

I wasn't keen on tofu the first few times I tried it but I've found one I really like and the way I season it and cook it makes it delicious
But choosing your taste buds over the planet is crazy!
There is so much variety in plant based food to say its all horrible I think you just don't want to try it
Your putting your wants above the need of the planet
No one is perfect but even if you had less meat and dairy it would make a difference

As a species we may well survive, but as a species our numbers have dropped significantly in the past in response to climate changes

This is true, but looking at the response to folk dying with Covid it seems no deaths can be tolerated any more
Amazing too - and oh so convenient - that so many "discover" climate issues only after they've had the kids (and then start telling everyone else they should only have a certain number)

Good to see Plan here banging the drum for common sense, but otherwise it looks to me like yet another opportunity for competitive panic and a nice bit of virtue signalling ...

@Puzzledandpissedoff I had wrote this on another thread an I know it won’t be popular but I think we keep people alive far beyond what that normally would have lived now, all those people wasting away in care homes with dementia and other life limiting illnesses. It’s quantity over quality now and it’s ridiculous. I am putting a directive in place so that I won’t be treated should I develop dementia or other life limiting illness. I know someone who is 100 years old and still wanting investigations into issues

@PlanDeRaccordement

Well they’re finally admitting that climate change is inevitable and cannot be reversed. So tired of the earlier versions insisting we have to act now or.....

Carbon emissions are a pollution problem anyway, so addressing that is good anyway. Always in favour of reducing pollution and going green.

But the whole idea that carbon causes all climate change and their little charts dating from 1850 and 1950 trying to show we are all doomed is just scare mongering. The planet had higher CO2 and warmer climate in the Bronze Age thousands of years ago. And yes the climate changed. And yes we survived with next to no technology and only feet and horses to flee rising sea levels.

We also survived multiple Ice Ages and interglacial periods where there were no ice cars during our 3million years as a species.

Humans will continue survive climate change.

Migrations in history often occurred due to climate change....migration is a constant of humanity, the fact we will have climate change refugees and nations will change is yawningly obvious.

I agree that we’ll survive and adapt - bit for many it will be increased suffering in the process. Plus I do think about future generations and impact on them.

But when you talk about carbon - how much of a cause do you think it is? Have we accelerated change?

[quote AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii]@Puzzledandpissedoff I had wrote this on another thread an I know it won’t be popular but I think we keep people alive far beyond what that normally would have lived now, all those people wasting away in care homes with dementia and other life limiting illnesses. It’s quantity over quality now and it’s ridiculous. I am putting a directive in place so that I won’t be treated should I develop dementia or other life limiting illness. I know someone who is 100 years old and still wanting investigations into issues [/quote]
I agree with this. There's the concept of 'a duty to die' isn't there

@Puzzledandpissedoff

As a species we may well survive, but as a species our numbers have dropped significantly in the past in response to climate changes

This is true, but looking at the response to folk dying with Covid it seems no deaths can be tolerated any more
Amazing too - and oh so convenient - that so many "discover" climate issues only after they've had the kids (and then start telling everyone else they should only have a certain number)

Good to see Plan here banging the drum for common sense, but otherwise it looks to me like yet another opportunity for competitive panic and a nice bit of virtue signalling ...

I agree re deaths and maintaining very long lives at some cost

But I do think we can and should be able to discuss all this without panic / virtue signalling etc

I admit I’m not perfect - that change is hard and consuming comes pretty easily to many. But first step I reckon is to not make it shameful to say I’d like to discuss and try

It used to be even more dismissed on here but seems to be changing slightly

We have to reduce the number of children we are having
It’s not Western women who are having five kids.

I do think we can and should be able to discuss all this without panic / virtue signalling etc

So do I Marsha, but sadly that's what it inevitably descends into, with folk vying for the most apocalyptic prediction

Ironic, perhaps, that the people I know in RL who bang on the most about it are the biggest consumers of the lot. Try pointing out that the even larger TV, the latest phone or the second home maybe isn't the best idea and you get pretty short shrift ...

We need governments and organisations to act radically, they have levers they can pull to make huge changes literally overnight as proven by COVID, so the responsibility should not simply rest with individuals- we will continue to get it wrong for various reasons!