What is ‘deprivation’

[0None0]

It’s such a common term. I have my own idea what it means, but would like to hear other ideas. A lot of people and situations described as ‘deprived’ I would not consider to be deprived

Have you see them? They do not qualify as a decent meal, they are rubbish

Do you actually have any idea of the standards school meals have to be nutritionally?

It doesn’t sound like you’ve set foot in a school tbh.

I know other people have said you are naive and I have to agree, when I say that I don't mean you don't have life experiences but that you have unrealistic ideas.

This struck me I’m also keen on limiting private car ownership. Well, it’s on its way out anyway. I would be like to hurry it along. Cars are terrible for the environment and again, I am interested in housing, and the amount of space that could be saved from car parking and repurposed for housing, particularly in areas were housing is in short supply near jobs

If you studied transportation and decarbonisation or studied childhood deprivation you would understand that it's very complex. Also I'd suggest you think about what others want you seem very set on your ideas being the only right ones.

You've decided what deprivation is.

You've decided that everyone should give up cars.

Whilst I'm sure you have good intentions stamping your authoritarian regime on others won't help them.

I honestly despair of the world when I read stuff like this.

So, you're providing everyone with a fridge and fresh food. What are they going to do with that in their cramped B&B temporary accommodation with the whole family in one room?

As for heating - people die in this country from hypothermia because they can't afford heating. Children get respiratory diseases because of the damp and mould, which would probably be reduced if they could afford to heat the house. Heating may be a luxury to the point some people heat their houses, going round in t-shirts when it's below zero outside, but basic heating is a necessity in the UK. Of course there are people round the world who live without it, but we're not equatorial or tropical here. Plus plenty of people round the world die because of deprivation and poverty, so it's not necessarily the standard at which to say, "that's good enough, we needn'ttry and improve any more."

This is clearly a wind up. If not I'd be interested in knowing which party you would get involved with ? Come on, tell us....

@Oldraver

What do you mean by not having access to education? Everyone in the uk has access to education

What about those who are kept off school as they dont have a coat shoes, money for cooking ingredients or period products ?

Children of gypsy travellers might not have access/constant access to education. A child in care might have to move local authority and change schools, disrupting their education. A child might not have a laptop at home etc. etc.

You don’t really seem open to discussion.

Do you think it’s possible that your views on deprivation have formed the way they have because your children were deprived and you’d be forced to accept that and live with it if you thought more carefully about what deprivation means?

I would certainly not think I was providing adequately for a child if I couldn’t give them three meals a day and they lived in the UK without heating. It would be a truly terrible feeling.

I wonder if guilt about what your children lived with is affecting your view on this.

@EBearhug

So, you're providing everyone with a fridge and fresh food. What are they going to do with that in their cramped B&B temporary accommodation with the whole family in one room?

As for heating - people die in this country from hypothermia because they can't afford heating. Children get respiratory diseases because of the damp and mould, which would probably be reduced if they could afford to heat the house. Heating may be a luxury to the point some people heat their houses, going round in t-shirts when it's below zero outside, but basic heating is a necessity in the UK. Of course there are people round the world who live without it, but we're not equatorial or tropical here. Plus plenty of people round the world die because of deprivation and poverty, so it's not necessarily the standard at which to say, "that's good enough, we needn'ttry and improve any more."

You didn’t read my post, did you? So you can’t really respond to it, can you

@Arsebucket

Lack of knowledge about what?

Everything people have pulled you up on, plus this:

Instead, every low income household to be supplied with a decent fridge and cooker

Which I could probably write an entire essay on why it wouldn’t work.

Go on then

@JustLyra

No, schools do not make that assumption. -internet access anc printer access is available in school for homework. Many children have no internet or printer, that’s why schools have to provide it

How many schools have you actually worked in?

Of the 22 I’ve worked in I can think of 4 that have well organised printer and homework club access. Probably another 2/3 that have it if a child specifically asks for it.

It is absolutely not the standard norm across the board.

Getting rid of school dinners is an absurd idea - there is a reason there has been a vast increase in breakfast clubs over the last few years. Food poverty is high.
Not to mention the children from neglectful or chaotic homes for whom their school lunch is the main, or only, meal of the day.
School lunches should be improved and expanded - not cut.

How many schools have I worked in or been associated with as a parent/ foster carer.

Around 30

How many have provided internet access and the printing and any other resources to complete curriculum requirements?

All

Because they have to. It’s the law. Schools cannot charge for anything related to the curriculum, including cookery ingredients. Including school trips. Including text books Including any other materials required for the curriculum

@Arsebucket

A quick google will show you that yes, a home owner under some circumstances (single parents, people with disabilities, those in receipt of certain benefits), can get grants for boiler replacements.

Absolutely untrue for the vast majority

@Sn0tnose

So, so far, you’re saying schools are providing coats, shoes, sanpro and cooking ingredients and that your policy would be to make them provide packed lunches too, while you supply low income families with fridges, cookers, food deliveries and now electric to run them, but that boilers are a luxury equivalent to international flights and teenagers should be responsible for their life choices?

Out of interest, what party would you align yourself with?

Yes all schools provide all those things. No I am not saying schools should provide pack lunches. School pack lunches are horrendous. I am saying get rid of school kitchens and catering altogether.

Provide families with direct access to deliveries if fresh food instead. And pack lunches should come from home

And pack lunches should come from home

There’s not a chance that someone with experience of deprivation in schools and fostering experience thinks that that is a solution to anything.

@Ifitquacks

Certain homeowners are entitled to help with replacement boilers, actually. Sometimes people just need signposting to that help. Reading between the (slightly confusing and incoherent) lines, do you have an issue with home ownership?

The number of homeowners that are titled to help is minuscule.

No, I have no issue with home ownership at all.

I am interested in people’s perception of ‘deprivation’

In my experience there is more poverty, and less support for working families and home owners than council tenants and people on benefits, in many cases

This can't be real,
There's no way someone, especially in education, thinks in this way? Surely?

@MissTrip82

You don’t really seem open to discussion.

Do you think it’s possible that your views on deprivation have formed the way they have because your children were deprived and you’d be forced to accept that and live with it if you thought more carefully about what deprivation means?

I would certainly not think I was providing adequately for a child if I couldn’t give them three meals a day and they lived in the UK without heating. It would be a truly terrible feeling.

I wonder if guilt about what your children lived with is affecting your view on this.

Yes it’s possible, which is why I wanted this discussion

I was unclear about my children btw they always had 3 meals a day, but I didn’t. I couldn’t because of providing for them.

I’ve come from being a teenage rough sleeper to being near retirement now after 30 years teaching in deprived areas, being a single parent, homeowner, far worse off than I would have been on benefits for over a decade at one point ( but well past that now)

I also have an open university masters degree in this area

I don’t think our (societies) understanding and response to ‘deprivation’ is correct or helpful

This may be because of being a rough sleeper, and working in extremely poor areas of the world , and working for homeless charities in the uk and living through times in the Uk which would be considered very poor, but I considered at the time) and still do) to be perfectly fine, relatively wealthy

To some extent my judgement may be skewed by my personal experiences, but also to some extent I looking at the issue with clearer eyes

Lots of posters in here are just repeating stock -in-trade received ideas and attitudes, either middle class infantilising ‘o poor them, they can’t help it’.etc Or personal accounts which are if more value to me, but you have to sort the wheat from the chaff

@JustLyra

Have you see them? They do not qualify as a decent meal, they are rubbish

Do you actually have any idea of the standards school meals have to be nutritionally?

It doesn’t sound like you’ve set foot in a school tbh.

I see school meals every day. Every day I am horrified afresh. They cost millions. They don’t belong anywhere except the bin. Abolish school catering completely is absolutely the way to go. I have no doubt. 95%of the vista goes on staffing and around 5% on the food. So once you have got rid of the staffing, and the kitchens and the machinery, schools have more space and 20x more money can be doesn’t on quality food

@Sickoffamilydrama

I know other people have said you are naive and I have to agree, when I say that I don't mean you don't have life experiences but that you have unrealistic ideas.

This struck me I’m also keen on limiting private car ownership. Well, it’s on its way out anyway. I would be like to hurry it along. Cars are terrible for the environment and again, I am interested in housing, and the amount of space that could be saved from car parking and repurposed for housing, particularly in areas were housing is in short supply near jobs

If you studied transportation and decarbonisation or studied childhood deprivation you would understand that it's very complex. Also I'd suggest you think about what others want you seem very set on your ideas being the only right ones.

You've decided what deprivation is.

You've decided that everyone should give up cars.

Whilst I'm sure you have good intentions stamping your authoritarian regime on others won't help them.

Yes I have studied these areas to masters level

To some extent my judgement may be skewed by my personal experiences, but also to some extent I looking at the issue with clearer eyes. Lots of posters in here are just repeating stock -in-trade received ideas and attitudes, either middle class infantilising ‘o poor them, they can’t help it’.etc Or personal accounts which are if more value to me, but you have to sort the wheat from the chaff

Up yourself much eh? Such contempt for the very people those opinion you apparently seek.

What do you mean by not having access to education? Everyone in the uk has access to education

No.

I've posted about this several times before (not sure under which username) but I developed M.E. when I was 12 and wasn't physically able to travel to my school, which was an hour away (45 minute standing room-only bus ride followed by a 15 minute walk). My mother had mental health problems and wasn't able or willing to drive me to school.

I was fine to do the work (and was considered a "gifted child"; always had excellent marks, did a million extra-curricular activities, very high academic achiever), my body simply couldn't do the physical aspect. If I'd had access to a wheelchair and some way of getting to school that didn't involve two hours of exhausting travel, I would have continued my education very easily and no doubt thrived.
Unfortunately neither my mother nor the LEA were willing to provide a wheelchair or transport. The LEA heavily pressured/threatened my mother into signing a letter stating she would home educate me, because they didn't want the bother of accommodating a disabled child.

Of course my mother had no capacity to HE, so I was basically left in my room to rot for years.

I became street homeless at 16 due to abuse from my mother's boyfriend, and it took years to get my life back on track.

I saved up money to do GCSEs via distance learning and to sit the exams as an independent candidate. I wanted to do this at 18 but it took me till I was 23 to save up enough money. Sat A Levels the same way the following year. I did the entire two years of A Levels in six months and passed with 100%

I applied for university when I was 26 and was accepted immediately. I then progressed to PhD level, and now have a decent job. But I am still light years behind my peers and many careers were simply not open to me due to my education being so disrupted.

All due to not being allowed to go to school as a disabled child.

@CatalinaCasesolver

This can't be real, There's no way someone, especially in education, thinks in this way? Surely?

They clearly aren’t a teacher, it was obvious in the first post.

Yes all schools provide all those things.

Again, no they fucking don’t. I very clearly remember being pulled out of a maths class to explain to his head of year why my brother was wearing black trainers instead of shoes and me having to explain that he had trainers so he could do PE, but that he couldn’t have both until I’d saved the money, and him then asking me if I’d managed to get the money together for my sister’s school trip later that week. I remember hiding in the toilets at break and lunch during the winter because it was so cold outside and my coat had been handed down to my sister. I remember pretending to have dental appts during home economics classes because I couldn’t waste money on ingredients for sodding rock cakes when I needed to buy actual food and because our teachers would humiliate us in front of the class and simply replied ‘you need to try harder’ when given the actual reason. I remember having cardboard in the soles of our shoes too. I remember a million other things that I didn’t have and couldn’t get. I particularly remember sitting through some patronising waffle about bulk buying making things cheaper from some teacher who had clearly decided to teach me how to budget middle class style, having no understanding that if I spent £6 on baked beans, we’d be eating nothing but baked beans for the week, and him reacting in surprise when I explained that you had to have money to bulk buy, as it hadn’t occurred to him. They all knew what was happening. And guess what? No coats, no shoes, no nothing. And no middle class teachers infantilised me either. I was fully expected to get on with it. And I did, but only because I had a mum who taught me how to cope while she was still well enough. The other kids on our estate weren’t anywhere near as lucky and we often had extra mouths to feed. As I said, I’m in my 40s now but I know for a fact that these things are still happening to children now.

And ‘wheat from the chaff’? Fuck right off. I can’t make up my mind whether you’re a massive wind up merchant, you’ve lost touch with reality or you’re a sociopath. I think you’re just determined to believe that you and your children weren’t deprived and that if you could pull yourself up by your bootstraps then everyone else can, regardless of their circumstances.

To be honest OP you have the empathy, understanding and listening skills of a gnat, alongside an overinflated sense of your own importance so you’ll probably do well in politics. Good luck!

Umm I don't believe you can have studied to masters level decarbonisation of vehicles.

City infrastructure and housing (to know if those car parks you are going to convert will work or just cause more deprivation).

& Childhood deprivation. All to masters level.

I've done a dissertation on one of those subjects to master level and even I've barely scratched the surface.

I see school meals every day. Every day I am horrified afresh. They cost millions. They don’t belong anywhere except the bin. Abolish school catering completely is absolutely the way to go. I have no doubt. 95%of the vista goes on staffing and around 5% on the food. So once you have got rid of the staffing, and the kitchens and the machinery, schools have more space and 20x more money can be doesn’t on quality food

You’d save money. Undoubtedly.

Again though - what about the children from poor, neglectful, chaotic, or simply dysfunctional homes for whom school means are their main source of food?

If school meals hadn’t existed a) the school would have taken much longer to pick up on issues and b) I’d have starved.

I’m somewhat baffled that someone claiming to be a foster parent seems to have no sight of the importance of school meals (not to mention the ever growing importance of breakfast clubs).