What is ‘deprivation’

[0None0]

It’s such a common term. I have my own idea what it means, but would like to hear other ideas. A lot of people and situations described as ‘deprived’ I would not consider to be deprived

@IDontReadEyebrows

I find it quite concerning that apparently you are a teacher. You’re actually saying that you don’t believe children- or adults- need heating and hot water? They don’t need 3 meals a day? That every child in the uk has access to education with no restriction at all?

I disagree with you btw. On everything. You sound suspiciously like the teachers I had growing up who must have had some idea that my siblings and I were neglected, sometimes wilfully, sometimes not and existed in a very deprived household. They did fuck all about it. Maybe like you, they didn’t think that we needed any of the stuff listed above and could go on our merry way

I think you and probably many others on here hugely overestimate what teachers know about pupils. I personally see around 300 students a week. I know and assume nothing about the home life if any of them, unless they tell me. I see their face above a desk, normally obscured by other faces, and I see their handwriting. That’s it. Teacher care there to teach!

@Neverdropyourmooncup As to facing disciplinary action for failing to complete a safeguarding if A child has no heating and hot water- complete nonsense! It’s common. It’s not a safeguarding issue.

Incidentally it is far more common and long lasting among home owner families than among renting families

I know and assume nothing about the home life if any of them, unless they tell me

So by your own admission you know nothing about their home life, but you feel you are able to judge their reasons for disengaging with education?

@Ifitquacks

I know and assume nothing about the home life if any of them, unless they tell me

So by your own admission you know nothing about their home life, but you feel you are able to judge their reasons for disengaging with education?

No that is not what I am saying. I was responding to the poster complaining that teachers didn’t ‘pick up’ on stuff, but I think it’s unrealistic to expect teachers to do that. We only know what students tell us. So I’m not talking about what I know about students in general. I’m talking about what I ‘guess’ about students that don’t specifically tell me about themselves.

But that’s exactly my point. You’re guessing. You’re making an assumption about why these children have disengaged, while having no idea what their home circumstances are (unless they’ve told you). How do you know that the bolshy 15 year old who tells you ‘school is shit’ isn’t being abused at home? You have no idea, by your own admission.
Based on your posts, I’m interested to hear what go it policies would be if you were to pursue your political dream? Would it be that people with no heating, hot water or adequate nutrition just need to stop moaning and crack on?

if A child has no heating and hot water- complete nonsense! It’s common. It’s not a safeguarding issue.

I really hope you're not a teacher

"miss I have no hot water or heating"
oh that's fine plenty of people don't

@liloli

if A child has no heating and hot water- complete nonsense! It’s common. It’s not a safeguarding issue.

I really hope you're not a teacher

"miss I have no hot water or heating"
oh that's fine plenty of people don't

What exactly do you think the school are supposed to do about it?

Not RTFT but as Mutteringdarkly says, theres seven indices of deprivation: income, employment, education, health, crime, housing and living environment.

Its more usually applied to areas than individual people.

So to give you an example: Where I live is an area of multiple deprivation.
On average we have low income, poor rates of employment, low levels of education, poor health and are more likely to become victims of crime.

On the other hand we score quite well on housing and living environment. The buildings are structurally sound and arent damp. We have green space and good amenities like shops and a medical centre.

Do they not have a safeguarding lead at your school?

@Ifitquacks

But that’s exactly my point. You’re guessing. You’re making an assumption about why these children have disengaged, while having no idea what their home circumstances are (unless they’ve told you). How do you know that the bolshy 15 year old who tells you ‘school is shit’ isn’t being abused at home? You have no idea, by your own admission. Based on your posts, I’m interested to hear what go it policies would be if you were to pursue your political dream? Would it be that people with no heating, hot water or adequate nutrition just need to stop moaning and crack on?

Well as I said. I’m interested primarily in housing. I’ve slept tough myself, and worked as a volunteer with rough sleepers for decades.

I think safe secure housing as a top priority

Other ideas I’m a bit more vague about.

This is a bit of a fantasy wish list maybe!

Get rid of school meals completely. They horrify me. They cost literally millions, abs are worthless junk. Most of the money goes in staffing, not food. Instead, every low income household to be supplied with a decent fridge and cooker, and supplied with deliveries if a choice of fresh food

I’m also keen on limiting private car ownership. Well, it’s on its way out anyway. I would be like to hurry it along. Cars are terrible for the environment and again, I am interested in housing, and the amount of space that could be saved from car parking and repurposed for housing, particularly in areas were housing is in short supply near jobs

@Thelnebriati

Do they not have a safeguarding lead at your school?

Yes of course. But lack of heating and hot water is not a safe guarding issue.

What do you expect schools to do about it?

No, in many cases I don’t understand why teens are being deemed as helpless victims unable to make decisions for themselves I’m horrified that this needs to be explained to someone who has contact with children. By the time I was 15, I was pretty much running our household because my mum was ill, she had no family support at all and I had three younger siblings to care for. The ONLY reason I was able to do that is because when we had nothing (no gas, no electric, minimal food, no sanpro etc) she had taught me how to cope. Not everyone has parents like that. If you have a teen whose parents don’t give a shit, who have taught them nothing, you don’t see education as a choice.

I KNOW schools provide shoes, coats, cooking ingredients and sanitary products, and have done for decades Absolute bollocks. I’m in my 40s. They didn’t provide those things when we were kids and I know from friends who are struggling to put food on the table that they don’t provide them now.

I have lived much of my adult life without hot water or heating, as gas most of the world, and it’s fine! It’s just an expectation these days, that’s all As an adult, you have an understanding of how to cope with these things. If you’re a child, with nobody to show you how to scrub your clothes clean in a sink of cold water, then get them dry ready to wear the next day so the other kids don’t bully you for being smelly, you’re fucked.

No idea what you mean about universities…. Then I apologise, I obviously misunderstood a comment from another poster.

And yes, I think I have a lot to offer Like what? Because at the moment, you’re making Jacob Rees Mogg look like one of the world’s greatest humanitarians. I don’t think caring about your fellow man is your forte, to be honest.

Instead, every low income household to be supplied with a decent fridge and cooker, and supplied with deliveries if a choice of fresh food

This is all well and good, but deprivation isnt just not having material things. Its not knowing about fresh veg, how to cook it, what to do, etc.

[quote 0None0]@Neverdropyourmooncup As to facing disciplinary action for failing to complete a safeguarding if A child has no heating and hot water- complete nonsense! It’s common. It’s not a safeguarding issue.

Incidentally it is far more common and long lasting among home owner families than among renting families[/quote]
Oh, stop being a goady ...... try reading the policies and the examples you won't because you are making this shit up .

It is totally a safeguarding issue.

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

Instead, every low income household to be supplied with a decent fridge and cooker, and supplied with deliveries if a choice of fresh food

This is all well and good, but deprivation isnt just not having material things. Its not knowing about fresh veg, how to cook it, what to do, etc.

Then that also needs addressing. But honestly, school dinners are awful, and host the country millions

@NeverDropYourMoonCup. I am well aware of the policies. Lack of heating and hot water is totally not a safe guarding issue. And again, what do o you expect a school to do about it?

@OnoneO I must admit, you do come across as quite naive about all this. Id recommend doing some serious reading around this subject if you're really interested.

[quote Letsallscreamatthesistene]@OnoneO I must admit, you do come across as quite naive about all this. Id recommend doing some serious reading around this subject if you're really interested.[/quote]
I’m not nieve. I have had a lot of experience in these areas

Get rid of school meals completely. They horrify me. They cost literally millions, abs are worthless junk. Most of the money goes in staffing, not food. Instead, every low income household to be supplied with a decent fridge and cooker, and supplied with deliveries if a choice of fresh food

How would this work? Having fresh food and cooking facilities at home won’t help in the middle of the day when the child is at school and the parents are at work. Are you proposing that the parents send prepared food in with the children to be reheated at school?

@Mrsfrumble

Get rid of school meals completely. They horrify me. They cost literally millions, abs are worthless junk. Most of the money goes in staffing, not food. Instead, every low income household to be supplied with a decent fridge and cooker, and supplied with deliveries if a choice of fresh food

How would this work? Having fresh food and cooking facilities at home won’t help in the middle of the day when the child is at school and the parents are at work. Are you proposing that the parents send prepared food in with the children to be reheated at school?

No, pack lunch at school, cooked meal at home

You may have had your own experience, but you clear lack of knowledge around the subject is really quite stark

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

You may have had your own experience, but you clear lack of knowledge around the subject is really quite stark

Lack of knowledge about what?

Instead, every low income household to be supplied with a decent fridge and cooker

And how’s that going to work if they don’t have the gas or electric to have heating or hot water, that you keep insisting is a luxury item? Perhaps you’d like to supply them with a push bike as well, so it can be run off pedal power?

I get that you’ve seen poverty and probably on a scale unknown to most of the UK. You’re not going to solve anything if you’re going into it with the attitude that kids in country A are eating mouldy bread from a rubbish dump so kids in country B should sort themselves out. It’s relative.

Lack of knowledge about what?

Everything people have pulled you up on, plus this:

Instead, every low income household to be supplied with a decent fridge and cooker

Which I could probably write an entire essay on why it wouldn’t work.

[quote 0None0]@NeverDropYourMoonCup. I am well aware of the policies. Lack of heating and hot water is totally not a safe guarding issue. And again, what do o you expect a school to do about it?[/quote]
OK, I'll try and make it very simple for you. No big words like deprivation.

www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types-of-abuse/neglect/

Please note under the category 'Housing and Family Issues';

'living in an unsuitable home environment, such as having no heating'

In addition, when completing the referral form, the parent's inability to recognise the issue and hostility to advice, such as you have displayed here, moves any concerns straight to the red level, scoring 4 points.

This then gets passed on to the local authority by the DSL and assessed. There are a number of paths this can then take, varying from support for the parent to understand how to look after children, assistance with benefits or accessing charitable help - or child protection proceedings.

You will also know if you are what you claim to be that the rule is to report, not to decide it's not worth it because nobody would do anything anyhow. Teachers have been barred from the profession for failing to report or act upon concerns. The 'no heating or hot water' disclosure could also coincide with other staff more competent than you making reports about other things that, when combined, give a more complete picture of the circumstances the child is living in, which could be anything from UC fuck ups to an abusive parent who thinks children don't deserve a safe temperature at home and gives them cold baths as a punishment to a Mum who is addicted to crack and hasn't been seen for six months.

Try telling somebody in the staff room tomorrow that you don't believe in reporting such things. See how well that pans out for you and your career.