What is ‘deprivation’

[0None0]

It’s such a common term. I have my own idea what it means, but would like to hear other ideas. A lot of people and situations described as ‘deprived’ I would not consider to be deprived

Having a fridge and a cooker does you very little good when you do not have enough money to be able to afford the electricity needed to run it.

And in the UK climate, heating is very much not a luxury.

@0None0

I think there are a lot of things listed here that I would not consider to be deprivation. That’s why I’m having trouble with this concept. There are times in my life I would have considered myself deprived, and there’s times I would not have considered myself deprived, but posters here would have considered me deprived. I hugely dispute some of your definitions.

I also don’t think it helps s anyone to consider a 14 year old to be unable to take responsibility for their decisions

I think they can

14 year olds don’t have responsibility for their own housing, food or safety.

All of those things have a direct impact on their education.

If 14 year olds were old enough to take complete responsibility for themselves they’d be able to leave school, drink, vote and drive. There is a reason they cannot.

I know discussion has moved on but there are plenty of children with SEN who dont have access to a school and are out of education whilst they wait for a placement or remain in very unsuitable placements that cant educate them.

Also schools vary considerably and some schools are so poor government inspectors rate them as inadequete. There are also leper schools that get moved from trust to trust never really getting out of special measures. So there might be a school to access but it could be pretty awful.

No, schools do not make that assumption. -internet access anc printer access is available in school for homework. Many children have no internet or printer, that’s why schools have to provide it

How many schools have you actually worked in?

Of the 22 I’ve worked in I can think of 4 that have well organised printer and homework club access. Probably another 2/3 that have it if a child specifically asks for it.

It is absolutely not the standard norm across the board.

Getting rid of school dinners is an absurd idea - there is a reason there has been a vast increase in breakfast clubs over the last few years. Food poverty is high.
Not to mention the children from neglectful or chaotic homes for whom their school lunch is the main, or only, meal of the day.
School lunches should be improved and expanded - not cut.

IMO "deprivation" means that you are deprived of needs and rights.

"Needs" being essential to life. For example food, clean water, shelter, basic hygiene (lol and place to wash), medical care, education, company etc

The other major consideration are human rights: right to life, prohibition of torture and slavery, right to liberty and security, right to a fair trial, right to private and family life, freedom of thought conscious religion and expression, freedom of assembly, right to marry, prohibition of discrimination.

Lack of knowledge about what?

Erm...all the things. You could also stand to spend a bit of time with a dictionary.

[quote 0None0]@Neverdropyourmooncup As to facing disciplinary action for failing to complete a safeguarding if A child has no heating and hot water- complete nonsense! It’s common. It’s not a safeguarding issue.

Incidentally it is far more common and long lasting among home owner families than among renting families[/quote]
I’m finding what you say, OP, increasingly absurd.

Just to clarify: are you in the UK?

You’re frighteningly unaware / dismissive of what the vast majority of people would regard as serious concerns regarding a child’s well-being. Regardless of what YOU may have experienced as a child and of what YOU may consider to be not of any great importance, there are certain basic standards that pretty much every poster on this thread deems important for a child’s well-being.

I don’t really understand what you are seeking here. I find your lack of empathy and understanding quite shocking particularly if you really do work in education.

@neverdropyourmooncup

You are making no sense at all

If someone can’t afford a boiler they can’t afford a boiler.

This is not a safeguarding issue.

At least 3 students families and one staff members family that I know of currently. No one thinks it’s a safeguarding issue. Including the safeguarding leads!

Because it isn’t.

And again, you are not saying what you expect the school to do?

Some people can’t afford boilers. Some people can’t afford cars. Some people can’t afford international flights. Fine people can’t afford to own a dog.

We don’t always get what we want in this world.

These things are not safe guarding issues

Taking the most charitable interpreatation: I think OP may be saying that working class people can be resourceful and resiliant and create a good life in circumstances middle class people might not think possible.
I have some sympathy for this point of view.

However, I have to pick you up on this:

Well that’s silly. What percentage of the worlds population do you believe has heating and hot water ?

I'm pretty sure its normal to have some kind of heating, pretty much everywhere thats cold enough to need it. Even if thats a wood fire, in economically underdeveloped areas.

A friend of mine married into the Roma community and moved out to Romania. This is the poorest and most discriminated against community in Europe. Even in the most informal settlement, most people have a little wood stove, at least.

Actually a ot of places in Eastern Europe we might think of as poor, have quite good heating infrastucture in urban areas because the Soviets were so keen on district heating systems.

In Glasgow there's still quite a lot of housing stock without heating. But we're outliers. The rest of the northern hemisphere thinks we're ridiculous.

Apart from that the only other cold place I can think of where people are going without heating is maybe Colorado in the USA. Because of their very lax building regs and rampant income inequality.

@pointythings

Having a fridge and a cooker does you very little good when you do not have enough money to be able to afford the electricity needed to run it.

And in the UK climate, heating is very much not a luxury.

The electricity might need to be supplied

Unfortunately the barriers to nutritious packed lunches and home cooked evening meals are for some more complex than fresh food and cooking equipment. So campaign for improved school meals, by all means. But abolishing them will absolutely deprive some children of their only decent meal of the day, whatever alternatives are offered.

Thank you to the posters who have added their idea of what deprecation means. Very helpful and interesting. I would like to hear any other ideas

Deprecation?

And again, you are not saying what you expect the school to do?

The school can work with the family to put them in contact with agencies that can help, to access any grants or benefits for example, to get that boiler fixed.

If families have trouble budgeting again, there is advice and help out there.

Not everyone knows there is help, not everyone is willing to ask.

So if a school picks up on these things, families can be helped.

@Mrsfrumble

Unfortunately the barriers to nutritious packed lunches and home cooked evening meals are for some more complex than fresh food and cooking equipment. So campaign for improved school meals, by all means. But abolishing them will absolutely deprive some children of their only decent meal of the day, whatever alternatives are offered.

Have you see them? They do not qualify as a decent meal, they are rubbish

You're on the wind up.

@Ifitquacks

Deprecation?

Sorry. Autocorrect. I mean deprivation

Mrsfrumble
Get rid of school meals completely. They horrify me. They cost literally millions, abs are worthless junk. Most of the money goes in staffing, not food. Instead, every low income household to be supplied with a decent fridge and cooker, and supplied with deliveries if a choice of fresh food

How would this work? Having fresh food and cooking facilities at home won’t help in the middle of the day when the child is at school and the parents are at work. Are you proposing that the parents send prepared food in with the children to be reheated at school?
No, pack lunch at school, cooked meal at home

@0None0
You AMAZE me! I am truly shocked by your beliefs and would NEVER vote or agree with you

I cook school dinners and they are bloody fantastic! I trained as a chef and worked in hotels and restaurants before I changed to schools. I have worked in 3 schools and some of these kids will only get one decent meal a day and it's their school lunch.

You started off by saying you think deprivation is more about quality of life at home rather than the quality of the home. You surely realise that some parents will throw any easy food at their children. And having said you think NOT getting three meals a day isn't deprived you want a packed lunch at school at a hot meal at home. Cooked by who? Do you only mean secondary children?

How can you possibly say that the education of a 14 year old is their own to manage? How naive of you to think that deprived children do not face struggles to get the best education. Or do you think there's no point in them going to uni and we 'need' supermarket workers etc so let them aim low

Again I am shocked at your total lack of understanding especially as someone who has overcome troubles. How did other children similar to yourself at the same age fair? Doing as well as you are they???

@Arsebucket

And again, you are not saying what you expect the school to do?

The school can work with the family to put them in contact with agencies that can help, to access any grants or benefits for example, to get that boiler fixed.

If families have trouble budgeting again, there is advice and help out there.

Not everyone knows there is help, not everyone is willing to ask.

So if a school picks up on these things, families can be helped.

Again, I think you are talking about tenants. Homeowners are not entitled to anything like that. And home owners with poor credit ratings would not be able to get a loan either.

What do you think happens if a home owner can’t afford to get a boiler replaced? Nothing happens until they can afford to get it replaced. However many years that takes.

That is how it it

[quote 0None0]@neverdropyourmooncup

You are making no sense at all

If someone can’t afford a boiler they can’t afford a boiler.

This is not a safeguarding issue.

At least 3 students families and one staff members family that I know of currently. No one thinks it’s a safeguarding issue. Including the safeguarding leads!

Because it isn’t.

And again, you are not saying what you expect the school to do?

Some people can’t afford boilers. Some people can’t afford cars. Some people can’t afford international flights. Fine people can’t afford to own a dog.

We don’t always get what we want in this world.

These things are not safe guarding issues[/quote]
May I ask - did you grow up in the UK? Is English your first language? Because for someone who claims to work in education, your grasp of basic sentence structure / grammar / spelling is not always sound. This is an observation, not a criticism, by the way.

A quick google will show you that yes, a home owner under some circumstances (single parents, people with disabilities, those in receipt of certain benefits), can get grants for boiler replacements.

I'm going to have to say it again in a shorter message 🙈

You can fuck right off having a go at school meals because I make them in a (previously struggling low income area) school and they are compliant to school food standards, fresh meat and fresh veg, small pudding/ fresh fruit options and I eat my own food ever day, as does the head teacher and other staff

Maybe you are the problem

So, so far, you’re saying schools are providing coats, shoes, sanpro and cooking ingredients and that your policy would be to make them provide packed lunches too, while you supply low income families with fridges, cookers, food deliveries and now electric to run them, but that boilers are a luxury equivalent to international flights and teenagers should be responsible for their life choices?

Out of interest, what party would you align yourself with?

Certain homeowners are entitled to help with replacement boilers, actually. Sometimes people just need signposting to that help.
Reading between the (slightly confusing and incoherent) lines, do you have an issue with home ownership?

I’ve just checked the menu for my DCs primary school for today; Moroccan meatballs in tagine sauce with couscous and roast vegetables, yogurt and fresh fruit for dessert. I’m guessing it probably didn’t look as fancy as described, but it covers the food groups and definitely sounds more appealing to me than a 4 hour old cheese sandwich and a bag of hula hoops.