Do you agree with this statement regarding pain and child birth

[user6767]

Chatting to a few friends tonight about child birth. One of them made a statement that I had never really thought about before but I can definitely see her argument.

She basically said it's wrong that women have to bear the pain of childbirth. When for nearly all other invasive/painful procedures we would be given pain relief as standard. She pointed out whilst we do have options like epidural these are not standard and in the UK in particular a 'natural birth' is seen as ideal. Also that she thinks if men had to give birth there would already be many more pain relief options available by now.

I thought it was a really interesting view point. Wondering what others think?

It's many years since I had my children, so perhaps things have changed or I have just forgotten, but I was encouraged to write a birth plan and I'm sure I could have asked for an epidural.

As it was, I was very keen not to have an epidural. Apart from being scared of it (I don't like needles and I definitely didn't want one going into my spine), I didn't want to feel numb. I wanted to be able to feel and understand what was going on with my body, even if it was painful. I also didn't want any drugs that would pass through to my children.

I remember my birth plan making clear that I reserved the right to change my mind, but fortunately I didn't need to.

I've never had a coil, but I can't imagine that being done with no pain relief. It sounds completely horrendous.

I do agree, but I do also agree as someone has said upthread that childbirth is a unique event and not really comparable to anything else or being in pain through a medical problem.
Women and women's health issues are generally treated like rubbish though. I was treated appallingly in my labours and even stitched up without anaesthetic.
My DH had a vasectomy and the fussing over and support he got was worlds away from anything I've ever experienced through three pregnancies and births.

This isn't an unusual viewpoint and I do agree that women should be able to access whatever pain relief they want/need during labour and childbirth.

I never felt pushed into having natural births though. If anything I felt like everyone went out of their way to tell me how painful it would be and to "take all the drugs".

Also, on MN (which a lot of people access for the first time when pregnant), people are always talking about how great c sections are.

I had an epidural in my birth plan, I was 24 when I gave birth and shit scared. They wouldn't let me have the epidural no matter how much I begged. In the end I was told "oh well you'll have to have it now then won't you" after my cervix had swollen from being told to push to early. I was made to feel like I was being a nuisance for wanting the pain to stop.

I think it’s a delicate balance. My grandma was sedated when her labour stared and her baby was delivered by forceps whilst she was completely out of it. I believe this was quite standard for a time, she wasn’t ‘allowed’ to try and have her baby without going through this.

She doesn’t look back on it fondly at all and actually found the whole process really distressing. Though I think that was partly because of how she was treated by medical staff.

I don’t know how you’d be able to have full blown pain relief where the mum couldn’t feel a thing without the use of forceps being increased massively.

On the other hand I do wonder why giving birth is so painful, humans have pain as a warning that something is wrong ie infection or injury. But with periods and babies I dont get why whoever designed us made it painful for us!

I’ve always wondered this. It doesn’t make sense that childbirth is so painful. It’s not necessary to the outcome. What other natural processes where nothing is wrong are painful? Other than periods.

I was induced with the drip...no epidural suggested or given. Just horrific

Oh and before anyone asks I was scared to ask for one in case they thought I was a trouble maker

Absolutely agree with her. I've had 3 children. The first I had a 36 hour labout with nothing but paracetamol until an hour before I gave birth. With my second the refused to give me an epidural because I didn't have time so I got nothing, same with the third because apparently she would be put in 15 mins if they broke my waters. Yeah, I was pushing her put for 2 fucking hours because she got stuck.

Epidurals should be standard as soon as you arrive at hospital for the people that want them. I basically had to beg, and still didn't get them with the last 2 kids.

I’m not sure if it’s true or not but when I was in labour with ds13, the nurse told me epidurals slow the labour down. Now I’m not sure if it’s true or she was trying to defer me for whatever reason. If it is true they probably don’t endorse it because the nhs is apparently always overstretched so they want to discharge people ASAP. I didn’t even get offered one with my dd, mind you the labour was only 2 hours, I did have gas and air and picotin which to be honest actually was okay.

I don’t think it’s “wrong” necessarily, that’s not the word I would use. I think there is a totally unnecessary level of judgement and sometimes superiority from some women who have given birth without pain relief (and some people who have never given birth, men included!)
But, as with anything, pain relief has side effects and it’s a choice, it’s not wrong for a woman to choose no pain relief if it suits her. I gave birth at home so obviously an epidural was out, I had gas and air but I didn’t really like it so didn’t use it that much (and it didn’t arrive until I was near the end anyway).

So, if your friend meant that it’s wrong for women to be forced to be in pain then I agree. If she meant that it is wrong for women to be in pain full stop, then I don’t.

Yes I agree. In France an epidural is standard in childbirth. This country is barbaric when it comes to women’s health.

I really didn't want an epidural though and I'm glad nobody tried to get me to have one when I was in labour.

Also, in France women don't have the option of gas and air. If that were the case here maybe more women would have epidurals as it would be their only option

There’s a strong argument for not medicalising labour and birth as standard as well. It’s a good thing women are encouraged to move, eat, follow their instincts, have partners present etc. No one should be forced into being shaved, to labour uphill in stirrups if she doesn’t want to.

But the problem with the insistence that birth is a natural thing and “you’re pregnant not ill”, “of course it hurts, what did you expect” is that an awful lot of us go through pain we don’t want and that is avoidable and a lot of us would have died and/or lost our babies without necessary intervention.

Women should have the births they want as much as possible. Whether it’s candles, a water birth and chanting nymphs, or all of the drugs at the first hint of contractions, or an elective section.

There are pros and cons for all interventions but the idea that you’re expected to suffer because it’s just what happens and you can be denied appropriate pain relief on what seems like a whim is outrageous and absolutely would not be the case if men did it.

DH had his gall bladder out, complicated but key hole surgery. He was under strict orders to keep as medicated as he could for as long as he liked and banned from picking up our baby for 2 weeks.

I had a traumatic emergency section under GA and a hip to hip incision plus a vertical internal incision, I was a mess and in recovery for a couple of days. I was warned I couldn’t go home until I’d stopped being “reliant” on anything other than paracetamol while I literally couldn’t stand unaided and if DH hadn’t been on the ward with me I couldn’t have cared for my baby at all as the staff were run off their feet looking after the few women who didn’t have partners there, or chatting and eating at the nurses station ignoring the buzzers.

And the pain with the third was excruciating. I was actually crying telling my dp I was going to die, and I am not a drama queen and actually have a pretty high pain threshold. I didn't make a peep with my first 2 babies, the third I was moaning like a dying cow.

@dreamingbohemian

Can we please stop with the whole 'our bodies were designed to do this' malarkey If I hadn't had a section, both my baby and I would have died. Maternal mortality was insanely high before modern medicine.

The persistence of this idea that natural birth is the norm and shouldn't be interfered with is so harmful to many women

No sorry I cant stop that's my opinion.

I had an epidural and a drip and in my opinion it stalled my labour and was the reason I ended up having a c-section as me and my son caught an infection. I truly believe it would have been avoided if I didnt have that epidural. My body would have done it better without drugs.

Completely agree and I’ve thought this for a long time despite not wanting kids. If I ever change my mind on that (unlikely) my preference would be to be put under general anaesthetic as soon as labour starts and wake up with the baby having been extracted. I’m not sure if that’s even possible but like fuck would I put myself through that when there’s options not to.

I sort of disagree with child birth. But for me I would rather it was less medical. (Second time I gave birth on the way and I preferred it). I suppose I worry for women who end up with more interventions. I think we need to make birthing a bit more centred around the woman and not the HCP.

But I do wish other women’s problems were dealt with better. Gynae stuff in general. We have no real help to know what is normal. I think we should see a gynaecologist every 5 years or something. It doesn’t have to be often. So much stuff can be going on and women have to wait to find out.

With other medical procedures there isn’t a second party to consider and the effect of any pain relief or procedure may have in them.

Childbirth unlike other medical situations is a choice.

This makes absolutely no sense, you still get anaesthetic if you have cosmetic surgery, we don't generally have a 'you chose it so no pain relief for you' policy!

I always feel slightly conflicted on quite a deep level about this. I completely agree with your friend but I've also had two births with only gas and air at the very end and I did feel quite strongly that I didn't want an epidural. I've often seen/heard women like me described as stupid or brainwashed - the normal line is that you don't get a medal for doing it without pain relief and so women who choose to are being silly. I logically agree with that but it still wasn't what I wanted. I feel the same about breastfeeding - every logical cell in me thinks that the evidence it has any real benefit is really weak and mostly confuses causation and correlation, and on some level I think that it's a bit of a trick of the patriarchy to make women feel they must do something so tying and time consuming, but it also mattered a lot to me that I did it. If I'm brutally honest maybe it's just too psychologically painful to admit that I suffered for nothing, on both fronts, so a little part of me wants to feel that there was some good reason for it...

@Comedycook

I was induced with the drip...no epidural suggested or given. Just horrific

Me too, it was terrible. I was given an epidural about 6 hours later after begging for one 🙄.

[quote gogohm]@FindingMeno

I've had both of those, neither hurt enough to need pain relief, do I have no pain sensors???

Nothing is risk free, plus I chose the convenience of no sedition because I could drive and go straight to work. I get the feeling I'm not typical admittedly, I'm the one that nipped to the supermarket 6 hours after giving birth...[/quote]
Did you have a baby before you had a coil fitted? I had one coil when I was nulliparous and one after having two babies and the difference is night and day, in that the first was agony and the second was painless.

I think it should be as it is, i.e. if you want or need pain relief you can have it. I was fortunate in that neither of my labours were painful. Intense and tiring and hard work but (crowning aside which hurt like nothing else ever before or since) I didn't feel the need for pain relief.

My birthing "experience" of DS (my only child) was horrific.

I was induced in hospital A. They kept stopping my induction because "labour ward was full" this went on for 3 days, stop start, stop start. By day 3 I was exhausted completely lost the plot and my temper.

I drove myself from hospital A to hospital B. (After slinging my maternity notes down a corridor)

Now hospital B agreed to start the induction and not to stop it.

But pain relief seemed almost impossible to get. I laboured for a further 2 days on not even paracetamol, then when in active labour I was given some gas and air but when I said "it's giving me a bit of a dry mouth and I feel dizzy, is that ok? " they took it away from me!!

I asked for a different pain relief, but was left in a room having now been in on off labour for 5 days exhausted tired and in pain for hours. When someone eventually turned back up...oh it was too late....what a coincidence.

I then spent just over 2 hours trying to push DS out, was forced in to stirrups, people were just shoving their hand up my fanny and lots of muttering. Turns out DS's shoulder was stuck and without telling me they were trying to turn him in the birth canal with no pain relief.

I eventually gave birth to a rather shocked DS....but then after 3 hours exhausted sore, tired and in shock. I was discharged home. 🤦🏻‍♀️ I remember getting in to my own bed with this beautiful newborn healthy and asleep in the cot next to my bed and I just cried for hours, uncontrollable tears.

This was only in 2014!!

Pain relief in labour shouldn't be a "ah we will think about it" if you have the means to give a reasonable safe pain relief for mum and baby, and mum asks for pain relief it should be given.

The thought of childbirth put me off having kids for years and years.
Totally agree with your friend.

I agree with her. Whilst mitigating all CB pain may be unrealistic we should definitely have proper care eg midwives not juggling too many mothers, more than one anaesthetist on duty, pelvic floor aftercare, etc.