DH doesn't recognise this as racism

[Lira91]

DH and I passed a stall on the way home selling England goodies for the final. DH decided to buy a few things to take in to work for him and his co workers since he'd be at the workplace during the match. He asked if he could get a deal since he was buying quite a few things for about 7 people (CF I know but it's the Asian in us ). The guy running the stall said "you wouldn't see me walking into your restaurant and asking for a discount on a lamb bhuna, would you?" DH agreed brushed it off but I said to the guy that he was being racist for assuming that because we're South Asian (should add that DH has an accent), it means he would work at a restaurant. DH thinks I'm over reacting but it always starts with small things like this and I just get fed up around football season when these kind of "you're not really one of us" comments roll around.

It's racist and very microaggrrssive, you were right to say something!

If someone says 'Lamb Bhuna' because you're Asian, what if they'd said 'Fish and Chips' (and he'd assumed you were British because you're in Britain). Both would be making an assumption. Would both be racist?

As others have also said 'it's the Asian in us' could also be construed as racist, as you're stereotyping.

Something can be racist without it being spiteful or laden with ill-intent. It can just simply be an assumption based on perceived race or creed etc - not necessarily meant as a slur, but lazy and tending to perpetuate myths and stereotypes.

'The Welsh are great singers' would probably go under most folks radar.
'The canny Irish',
'The bawdy Australians'

It's all racism, but I suspect most of us fall foul of it in some form.

How can something be ‘very microagressive’? 🙄

@GirlAloud

How can something be ‘very microagressive’? 🙄

By being a twat in a small font

Yes, of course it’s racist. He might not have meant to be, or meant to be derogatory, but it’s racist all the same.

I apologise for the CF comment in my OP, and if I've upset anyone with it. As someone said previously, it's almost like getting the quips in first before someone else can say something and hurt you, I've grown up experiencing a lot of racism, both verbally and physically, including having a plank of wood thrown at the windscreen of my car and just having to deal with it because I didn't see the person's face to follow it up. I'll be more careful in future to not be so blasé with what I say.

I’d be appalled if I heard someone say this to an Asian PoC. I think it’s pretty different for someone to make a quip about themselves on an Internet forum to someone actually saying this to an Asian customer.

The comment was racist and so was the OP's dig. The OP then back pedalled saying it was sarcasm.

Therefore the OP appears to be guilty of the thing she's attacked in someone else. Not very intelligent.

People need to be tolerant of people. The naive and the foot-in-mouthers need to be tolerated, too.

I'm sorry but it is not possible to be racist if you are making a joke about the stereotypes in your own background. That is self deprecating humour which you can dislike of course but it isn't racist.

I'd call the comment referring to lamb bhuna racial stereotyping or a micro aggression at least and assuming the stall holder was not themselves Asian, it is definitely within the realms of a racist comment, depending on tone etc

@Itgetsthehoseagain

People need to be tolerant of people. The naive and the foot-in-mouthers need to be tolerated, too.

And which type of person do you think his was?

@Itgetsthehoseagain

People need to be tolerant of people. The naive and the foot-in-mouthers need to be tolerated, too.

Naïve and foot-in-mouth racist comments are still racist and need challenging.

I agree that not every person making a racist comment is a racist and how they are spoken to and educated would be different from dealing with someone making knowingly racist comments.

@sykadelic

I dont consider it racism but then you'd know better than me. I'd just think he picked a random example where asking for a deal wouldn't be tolerated.

Really? The example was really random even though Op has clearly staged she and DH are Asian???

Your own post has racial stereotyping in it!

The op wasn't just making a quip to herself she posted it here. The reason I don't like it, is because I feel that, that stero type harms us quite alot.

It also feels hypocritical. People seem to be ok with with stereotypes that harm us, when it's benefitting them in the moment. But anyone actually verbalises the stereotype, it's not ok. And I don't think it's always internalised racism. It's often just based in wether people are benefitting. But it's still perpetuating the stereotype.

Op knew she was being a cheeky fucker and justified it using a harmful stereotype. Not in her head on here.

It appears she gets it and I appreciate her last post. However, it seems some people really don't want to listen to voices from a similar community as the op, just keep saying that their opinion is correct and anyone disagreeing is wrong and just doesn't understand the issue and nuance.

It was racist. We all know that if you allow people to get away with the small things they can escalate (or others see the society's permissiveness and escalate) their behaviour.

Some of the responses on here are honestly grim.

Stereotyping about yourself is absolutely not the same as doing it to another group.

Do any of you never say banter about women? But it sounds different coming from a man doesn't it?

Same with disabled - a disabled person absolutely can poke fun at their limitations - an able bodied person cannot.

It's as simple as that and if you can't see it more fool you.

FWIW I would describe it more as being prejudice/a mircoagression (not that it makes any better but racism has taken a life of its own and I feel people should use it in the right context)

@Unsoliciteddeckpic

The op wasn't just making a quip to herself she posted it here. The reason I don't like it, is because I feel that, that stero type harms us quite alot.

It also feels hypocritical. People seem to be ok with with stereotypes that harm us, when it's benefitting them in the moment. But anyone actually verbalises the stereotype, it's not ok. And I don't think it's always internalised racism. It's often just based in wether people are benefitting. But it's still perpetuating the stereotype.

Op knew she was being a cheeky fucker and justified it using a harmful stereotype. Not in her head on here.

It appears she gets it and I appreciate her last post. However, it seems some people really don't want to listen to voices from a similar community as the op, just keep saying that their opinion is correct and anyone disagreeing is wrong and just doesn't understand the issue and nuance.

Exactly this and of course they just be right even though they're likely not even a Asian so have no experience of being on the receiving end of the comments

@ivfgottwins

So you're allowed to stereo type but no one else is 🤔

🙄

@doesparentingsuck

Stereotyping about yourself is absolutely not the same as doing it to another group.

Do any of you never say banter about women? But it sounds different coming from a man doesn't it?

Same with disabled - a disabled person absolutely can poke fun at their limitations - an able bodied person cannot.

It's as simple as that and if you can't see it more fool you.

FWIW I would describe it more as being prejudice/a mircoagression (not that it makes any better but racism has taken a life of its own and I feel people should use it in the right context)

If a disabled person pokes fun at their limitations, are we allowed to laugh with them?

Here's the rub with any form of racism...

Racism is a prejudice. In its purest form, it doesn't have to be a negative slur, it can be a positive prejudice, but it's a prejudice all the same. One based on someones race, or perceived race.

If we say 'the French are lazy' - it will typically offend
If we say 'the Welsh are great singers' - it probably won't offend
Both are examples of assumptions being made because of nationality.

But what do we do when certain nations have characteristics in their cultural history? The British have been quite renowned for scientific achievement. The Welsh have been known for their choirs. Not every Englishman is a scientist, and not every Welshman will be good singer.

Ask two children to paint someone from China and someone from Iceland. The chances are, they will give the Chinese face a yellow tone, and black hair. There's a pretty good chance they'll portrait the Icelander with fair hair and pale skin. Yet neither are categorically true. Is is racism?

I use the term 'racism' loosely, as often it's not race we are stereotyping but someone's nationality, but it's a broadly similar issue.

If we completely abandon all stereotypes, life becomes very difficult. Could we portray a Chinese rice farmer in a painting if we argued he COULD be wearing a bowler hat and sporting a handlebar moustache?
Could we portray an LA gang member as white, wearing a cardigan and brogues?

If I mention a far right English hooligan, almost all of us will visualise a tattooed white person, with a skin head, or very short hair. This is a an assumption being made on our part. They may well be female, wearing a cocktail dress and very eloquent.

I think we ALL incorporate such assumptions in our thinking, in our art, our music, our films... which ultimately makes us all racists.

So many issues with this one. Odds are on the stall holder would have said a flat “no” to white customers.

Op’s comment that supports Asian stereotypes isn’t great but it wasn’t said to the stall holder, so it’s not like there was a “level” introduced to the conversation of what was acceptable or not.

Except that the OP said “that’s the asian in us.” Which doesn’t relate to her culture but her colour. There Asian could have related to numerous races, Indian, Pakistani, from Afghanistan and the list goes on.” If OP had said “Well that’s the Indian in us,” (assuming she’s Indian,) then it could be seen as stereotyping her own culture. But there are many different cultures within the Asian race, and as such, she was just as racist, as she’s stereotyping races that are not her own.

A disabled person making fun of themselves, is making fun of themselves. Not a community if someone with a disability made a joke about a huge group of disabled people, that wouldn't be ok.

Same with disabled - a disabled person absolutely can poke fun at their limitations - an able bodied person cannot
Why?

To avoid it suggest we are making a special case BECAUSE they are disabled.

There is humour to be found in some quite dark places. To mock an individual with the intent of humiliation is cruel. To find humour in the human condition itself, and all that comes with it - that's the nature of comedy.