Would you be annoyed if your 18 year old was claiming benefits?

[Annoyedandirritated]

My 18 yo dd has never really fit in or had any particular interests or passions.

She has been living with her dad since lockdown but before that was with me full time.

She’s dropped out of college, and for the last year has been working various dead end jobs on a part time basis. She’s now working part time and claiming universal credit. She has no intention of working full time, and is happy to sponge off the state.

I am really upset, I didn’t bring her up to be so lazy. She’s totally well, no disabilities or anything. She says she’s no intention of working full time, as why would she when she can get paid for doing nothing.

What would you do in this situation? She knows how I feel, and that I’m embarrassed by her lack of work ethic and willingness to claim benefits when she’s perfectly capable of working.

Am I being over the top? Should I just hope that she finds some direction? Her dads not bothered, he’s in and out of low paid jobs and doesn’t see an issue with it.

I lost my job at 23 and got myself into debt and didn't claim benefit for a hole year because my mum had the same attitude towards benefit claiming as you do and made it so clear how embarrassed she would be

I'm 27 now and I wonder, is she as embarrassed as I am now still having this debt hanging over me?

Consider your daughters feelings a bit more. You'll wreck your relationship if all you can do is criticise and tell her she's a disappointment to you.

Awful

*whole

I have always had a hard time getting long term employment. Not only did I come of age when the first of the 21st century recessions started, I also have a VERY difficult time in interviews because of my autism and anxiety. I remember going to an interview in 2012 and I was physically shaking and stammering. Needless to say, I didn't get that one. I'm not entitled to benefits either. Though I am thankfully entitled to support with applying for jobs and managing what I do earn, declaring it to HMRC etc.

I would probably be inclined to cut her a bit of slack. 18 is still quite young, after all. I imagine quite a lot of her cavalier attitude may be to mask the fear that she is feeling at being suddenly faced with adult responsibility and expectations at the mere turn of a calender (her 18th birthday).

As for benefits, since the hoops you have to jump through to get a single penny are so convoluted and complex, I don't begrudge anyone who claims. It's a nightmare in itself.

People like her are why I vote for parties reducing bennies for all.

What a nasty attitude!!

That means you support reducing benefits for people like me

Disabled following a car accident, Severe mental health issues following an abusive childhood but triggered by that same accident

Lovely

Op I can understand you're concerns, but honestly having been through similar with my dd I think it's very possible she will come around to a different way of thinking.

My dd left school at 16, tbf not totally get fault school were being arses about her disability and unsupportive. But her disability didn't prevent her working at this point (it may in the future)

She was living with me though as I said to her she wasn't just lazing about at home. She either went to college or got a full time (min 30 hours) job.

She got herself an apprenticeship in which she did really well after a shaky start.

When her friends starting leaving school and going uni a couple years later, this led to her re-evaluating her own situation. She also broke up with a long term boyfriend around the same time.

Her job was ok, good pay for a "kid" but not a career she really wanted.

So she went back into education, and she is now heading off to uni this year, a red brick no less.

I've also observed similar circumstances in other families and the parents get really stressed (as did I)

But in every case the "kids" have come good in the end.

One took until the son was 30 till he got his head on straight, he'd been drifting and then met his now wife, who is a lovely but quite blunt woman. When they met she made it very clear that she thought he was capable of more and was drifting and gave him both the confidence and the kick up the arse to do better. He'd started uni but dropped out before end of first year and thought it wasn't for him. She pointed out maybe it was more the uni/course wasn't for him, encouraged him to consider other options which he did and he's now in a career he loves and is doing really well, they're now married with 2 kids of their own.

Generally when they start encountering situations where they're missing out on nights out, concerts, holidays etc that their friends are all participating in, when they see those friends buying nice clothes/tech, then cars and houses they start to reassess themselves and understand they have to sort things.

But also, this particular past year has been horrific for teens/young adults. There are fuck all jobs about of any kind (when did you last job hunt op? When did you last do so when you didn't have any/relevant experience? I have a number of friends who've been made redundant or lost businesses due to COVID impact in the last year. These are people in their 30's/40's/50's with degrees - even advanced degrees - and tons of good work experience and references and they're really struggling to find work/enough work, the ones that have found work all but one has only found part time/zero hours so far) education has been hard hit and a lot of youngsters have made the decision to wait a year or two until things settle, my own dd debated doing this too. She is hoping things will be closer to normal by Sep/Oct.

She's been in tears at points with how hard it is to really engage with education remotely, to study online etc.

I'm so proud of how well she's done even more than if she'd been doing this in "normal" times because it's been damn hard for them! A number of people dropped out of her course because they simply couldn't cope under the current situation.

Give her a bit of a break, keep communication channels open so that you CAN influence her properly and counteract the lack of motivation from her father. (I can relate to that too but would prefer to keep it in pm if you're up to that)

Can she drive yet? I'm guessing when it gets to the point all her friends can drive and have cars she'll be wanting the same - can't do that on a part time job and uc.

Plus, as others have said uc "discipline" has been less so this past year.

I actually have a few in my circle who work for dwp and they are totally overwhelmed between 100,000's more claiming and constant regs changes and they're working crazy hours too.

When things calm a little I suspect it'll be "business as usual" which will mean 2 major changes

Loss of COVID bumps in money
More pressure back on to get people off uc wherever possible and an 18 year old fit to work with no caring responsibilities will likely be under a lot of pressure to find and keep a full time job or be at risk of sanctions.

Regarding potential fraud - does she have a different surname to her dad? Is he on birth certificate?

Good to hear the more rational comments that she may come through this phase.

To clarify, I have NOTHING against people who need to claim benefits! The point is that my DD doesn’t! My opinion is that if you are able to work, you should! I don’t think that’s particularly judgemental, it’s just my work ethic.

However, I have apologised to her for making her feel bad and said I won’t mention it again. I don’t want to ruin my relationship with her, so I will
Just hope she matures and finds her way

Op I would feel the same. But this year has been awful for some people. It must be pretty hard to want to to feel motivated. So I would just try and support her out of it.

I can only assume she has told them she is renting from someone who isn't family. It's been done before, in which case she is claiming fraudulently and I would be extremely concerned about what happens if/when she is found out.

That's more than a lack of motivation.

I think she must have, as otherwise she wouldn’t be getting so much.

Is she on the tenacy agreement at her Dad's? Under cover UC were just accepting people's claims for housing costs on trust basis. But now they are going through benefit claims made during covid and asking for proof.

If she's not on the tenancy she won't have the required proof and there will be an overpayment which could be quite big if it goes back to the start of the claim. She will have to repay it.

As I said - I sympathise I went through similar with mine, it's bloody hard holding your tongue!

But it's part of this particular stage of parenting. I think it’s the hardest part myself - gimme a teething/colicky baby instead any day!

You have to trust that you raised her right, keep talking to her, use positive rather than negative motivations (what she could do if she worked full time/went to uni and increased her qualifications) and keep the lines of communication open.

I left home at 17 as it was abusive, I was in what would now be a nmw “dead end” job and was a lodger with no ability to save for my own place I barely had enough for the basics!

My situation was a bit different in that it wasn’t of my own making but I was still in the same position. I went to evening classes to bump up my GCSEs and get a-levels, worked for a few more years in a slightly better paid but not great job, then got made redundant when the branch closed in the early 90’s recession. Was on what was then called “the dole” for about 4 months, looking hard but unable to get a job, I then decided I’d give nursing a go and went to uni as a “mature” student (was still only in my 20’s!), I worked as a nurse for several years but ultimately decided it wasn’t for me. Later I went back to uni again planning a career switch I was in my 30’s by then and a single mum. Was wanting to better mine and dds life. Unfortunately was in a bad car accident just after finishing which messed my health up in multiple ways. Put the planned career on hold, thinking the health issues would get resolved and worked in “normal” jobs for a few years but my health deteriorated rather than improving and I’m currently unable to work. I am hoping to find a way to be able to work around my health issues but it’s complicated.

I hate not working.

BUT as I said in earlier post I’m also aware of the huge difficulties job seekers are having at the moment. Between Brexit, COVID and an utterly incompetent govt it’s bloody hard at the moment.

Your post/thread kinda reminds me of a conversation with my dad some years ago. He hadn’t been a job seeker since the 60’s! Yet he thought he knew it all and that it was simply a case of “applying oneself” well that was a bit of a red tag to a bull to me!

My sister and I at this time were both job seeking and single mums. So I sat with him and went through EVERY job available within commutable distance - allowing for a 2 hour each way commute by train too - and pointing out the issues with each job/Job type:

Poor pay (not enough to cover commute costs, childcare etc even with tax credits etc)

Hours we couldn’t manage (no childcare for evenings, weekends or bank holidays)

Qualifications/prior training required that we neither had nor could get - he was a tradesman back in the day before joining the army and thought you could still walk into that kind of job without any previous skills or training or qualifications

Located in the arse end of nowhere - neither of us had a car at this point and without a job couldn’t buy or run a car, no public transport to these places, taxis would wipe out wages

Temp contracts - what he didn’t understand about this was that it messes up your income security. In theory you’re supposed to be able to go on and off benefits as needed, even back then. The reality is as soon as you start a job you lose all benefits while they “recalculate” what you’re eligible for, so even if you’re still eligible for some help it stops until they assess that, it was supposed to “only” take 6 weeks to do so but more commonly took much longer. So then you were in a position of having to support yourself on basically nothing until your first pay - which could also take as long as 6 weeks. Plus it costs to start a job - childcare has to be paid upfront, transport, clothes, possibly equipment. Then as it’s a temp job they can let you go whenever so they might not keep you on for the full contract, it’s usually zero hours nonsense, then when the contract ends what’s supposed to happen is you smoothly transition back onto benefits - ha! As if! It can take several months even a year till you’re back where you were before you took the job in terms of income and income security. By which point you could be up to your eyes in debt, possibly dodgy debt, evicted, lost your residency of kids due to homelessness etc

The benefits system is NOT easy, not as generous as people seem to think and weighed down by insane amounts of bureaucracy.

We are on UC. So is Ds and dd who are teens and early 20s

It has been a terrible year.

Fwiw I have never successfully held down a job. I was found to have ADHD.

The reality is as soon as you start a job you lose all benefits while they “recalculate” what you’re eligible for, so even if you’re still eligible for some help it stops until they assess that

Not on UC. We have worked and claimed UC. and they deduct only when you have start earning.

She could be in a much worse predicament as an 18 year old, running drugs or up for GBH. She’s reliably holding down a job and is pleasant enough by the sounds of it. Yes she’s not a typical high flyer straight out of A levels and going into uni but maybe she needs a break from education? One way of her having the best of both worlds might be doing an apprenticeship in the work place, gaining qualifications that way, in something she enjoys. My main question to you would be about her interests and skills. What does your DD love, what makes her happy?

OP you’re not BU at all. Especially since from what you say she is committing benefit fraud.

I can’t believe people on here saying good for her, she’s entitled to it. No she’s really not!!!

People like her are why I vote for parties reducing bennies for all. If they were claimed solely by those who can't work then that is fine but they are not. Sorry not doing 50 hour weeks to fund a spongers lifestyle.

Oh, so those genuinely need of 'bennies' (WTF?) shouldn't be able to claim them either, just because some people take the piss?

Nice attitude.

She works 18 hours, and lies about having to pay rent at her dads. That is how she is eligible

If she is getting about £300 on UC then I don’t understand why you think she is committing benefit fraud

Both dc don’t pay me any rent. They are not claiming that they pay me rent and get a similar amount about each month

Also does UC pay “rent” if you are living with family?
If it does then she would be receiving nearer £5-600 per month with the housing benefit on top.

I think there is a lot of misinformation about UC on this thread.

Some people just don't want to work

Ie she's a lazy scrounging twat. Ugh. How do people live like that.

I don’t know the ins and outs of the UC as she’s very defensive when I asked her about it.

She’s not interested in doing an apprenticeship, it is something I have tried to encourage. It’s really hard as she is genuinely not interested in anything! She likes watching Netflix, and that’s pretty much it. She did ok at school but never had any passions/interests, and has never really got into anything at anything other than a superficial level.

I have tried to support her in looking at other things

@Bythemillpond I'm still on legacy benefits and was referring to those. I know some things have changed/improved on uc but I know there are other issues too

I don't think YABU

Just don't be surprised if an 'accidental' pregnancy is the next step.

In my long, and bitter experience, there is no such thing as a person who didn't want to do their best.

There are many many people with undealt with issues who struggle to show interest in any job, hobby, activity, but when assessed/ given a chance to explore, find that they're deeply anxious and/or neurodiverse.

I know, this makes me very wet and pathetic, but I truly believe it.

Now that you've taken the UC off the table, perhaps you can build up (slowly!) to a proper conversation. Ask her how she getting on at her dad's, is she still in contact with anyone from school, real questions. Find out what was her happiest moment at school, what was her worst, who she liked best, who she would cross the road to avoid even as an adult (referring to her as an adult will be a positive thing for her too).

Spend a few months taking real baby steps to form a more adult-to-adult relationship, and see if anything comes to the surface.

All kinds of issues can leave a person shut down, apathetic, "not bothered", including, but not limited to -
Childhood trauma/abuse/ incident/ including bullying,
Neurodiversity - Autism, ADHD, ADD,
Mental Health problems - Anxiety, Depression, eating disorders and more.
Often it's a mixture as one begets another.

It's easy to say she learnt it from her dad, but it's equally possible that her dad deals with some underlying problem. In fact I'm sure he is, because, again, I believe that the kind of behaviour you describe is all about avoiding the real world. You sound as if you really care about your daughter and would consider trying to find out.

my dd had to claim UC as a top up to her full time work to enable her to pay her rent.
they phoned her regularly, sent her on a course,
there is a scheme for the under 24s that she could go on

do you talk to your ex husband op?
does your dd have grandparents?

@Annoyedandirritated She says she’s no intention of working full time, as why would she when she can get paid for doing nothing.

I’m just sad that she has no drive or desire to do anything other than the option that lets her do the minimum

(Forgive me as I haven’t read the full thread).

Sometimes teenagers know exactly what to say to wind their parents up. Especially, when they feel that their parent is on their back too much. It’s easier said then done, but try not to worry too much and take a step back and let her solve her own problems but be there if she wants your support or guidance.

DS(22) is also claiming benefits.
I am fully supportive of the welfare system. I absolutely do not think it is for him, as he is fully able to get a job.

He knows how I feel, but he is an adult and makes his own decisions.
As long as he is not asking me to support him I leave him to it.

He dropped out of uni 2 years ago, as he was going into his third year.
He worked for a while doing casual work. He came back home for lockdown and worked while he was here.

He then went back to his uni town and has been claiming benefits since.
I think it's fine that at 22 he doesn't know what he wants to do.
For most of us, the lifting of restrictions means we can go back to our normal lives, but he hasn't 'settled down' yet. He doesn't know where he wants to live, or what he wants to do, and couldn't make those decisions with everything locked down.

He is happy. He gets up, exercises, cooks and eats well, does his music. He is much happier than he was. If he is still living this way in a few years I will be more concerned, but for now I think it's OK.

I might not agree with it, and it might not be how I would have been but that's OK.

I think @lborgia post is spot on actually. Aside from those struggling to find work due to poor economy I agree that many if not all who struggle to feel engaged with the idea of creating a good life for themselves that includes a career, it includes difficulties that they have on an educational, or undiagnosed physical or mental health issues.

When my dd went through her rough patch it was largely because she was struggling with her mh due to getting her head around having an invisible disability and the way people were treating her as a result and because she had her confidence knocked as she was so badly let down by the school. I was livid with them for that, she'd been a "top of the class" student throughout her school career, even to the point she'd already taken a few highers (like a levels) before leaving at 16, repeatedly on honour roll, mentor to younger students and on student council...then a new head came in and majorly fucked things up! Not just for her but the school generally. That was the year before dd left. We naturally stayed in touch with other pupils and parents and saw reports in local news and inspection reports were publicised etc which showed that the school declined in several ways after this new head took over. From poor exam results to increased bad behaviour, more bullying etc they made a right mess! They were replaced last year eventually but the damage is done as it's a small town and the school now has a bad rep and decent parents with well achieving well behaved kids don't want to send their kids there.

Once dd got some breathing space from that place, she had a good mentor on the apprenticeship and also became friends with an older (to dd, 21) lady who had also "dropped out" of school who was telling dd she very much regretted it and wished she'd stayed on. She had become pregnant at 17 after leaving school and getting in with a "bad lad" and was planning at that time on once her dc was school age going back to education herself. Which is what she has done.

This lady had a similar rough childhood to myself was the situation she had to overcome.

I'm almost 50 and I have to say I've never met/known anyone who is literally workshy once I've got to know them and their situation.

I've met/known people who have had messed up childhoods, disabilities often undx until adulthood with the "minor" learning difficulties, mental health issues, domestic abuse inc controlling and coercive partners/spouses (in my experience these types tend to prefer their victims not to be working as it keeps them financially dependent on them, cuts them off from having relationships with work colleagues who may be likely to notice and point out the abusers behaviour is out of order and means they are mostly at home where there abuser can more easily control the environment and influences).

I'm sure a few exist but in my experience they are very few.

She says she’s no intention of working full time, as why would she when she can get paid for doing nothing.

Bear in mind that this is an 18 year old speaking to their somewhat estranged mother. There may well be an element of sarcasm/bloody mindedness/pushing mums buttons

Sometimes teenagers know exactly what to say to wind their parents up

Ah I see we're kinda on same page

It's a really difficult phase of parenting as I said, we have the opinions and the desire to make them do as we think is right but we no longer have the authority. So we're kinda powerless!

Can be very worrying and very frustrating