Why are surgeons such arrogant arseholes

[KirtonandKim]

*not all of them

Seasoned manager of over 25 years. Brought in to manage a team of surgeons who have ridiculous retention of staff (they can’t). Managers, operational, PAs and juniors - they cannot retain anyone.

2 months in and I can see why. They are without a doubt the most arrogant group of people I’ve ever had the misfortune of trying to manage. I’ve managed “bad” teams before - but nothing like this. And it’s just shrugged and accepted as “what surgeons are like”.

They know they are untouchable - they know they have us over a barrel and we can’t sack them. But the constant moaning and bitching and whining and utter lack of any insight into their own behaviour is fucking flabbergasting

God I can’t face work tomorrow

So, here's me speaking from my own perspective and in praise of my NHS surgeon when I had breast cancer.
A little roly poly smiley Chinese surgeon who removed both my breasts (1st had to go, second was elective) who came to see me in the Recovery Ward afterwards (I was in for 4 days)
Brilliant, he was! And so, so caring.
It was a few years ago, but I still remember him.
(The breast care nurse, however, was a cow.)

I've worked for the @ daradas of this world. It just takes a certain kind of person, I guess. But it doesn't really bother me. I do it and go home, he/she does what they do and go home. I dunno. It's not for everyone.

Actually the hardest to deal with was a nuc med prodigy doctor who had rampant undiagnosed high-functioning autism. He was worse than any solicitor. You just had to know how to handle him. Anyone who gets a PhD by the time he's 16 and then an M.D. by 21 is probably a bit amiss.

I just looked at it as like working with dogs.

No, I do see where @darasda is coming from. Among employers I'd have to say the likes of him/her were far easier to work for as you knew where you stood.

I have a very dear friend who is a consultant professor. She's a wonderful person, but I wouldn't want to live with her and, well, I don't. LOL. I do go on holiday with her as we share similar interests, but boundaries! Boundaries.

It rather helps having a son such as mine. He's brilliant. But he has to be handled.

@Fluffycloudland77

I think Darasdas getting a harsh time on here.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and you can only speak from your perspective.

I agree.

@Member869894

'And remember surgeons have a very strong inbuilt bullshit detector, so please don't come out with management-speak because that we hear it everyday and roll our eyes every time'.

Darasda , you really are the gift that keeps on giving ..

Ah I see. Nothing more sensible to say then. Glad I amuse you at least.

@TatianaBis maybe you would reconsider your previous statement next time you may need an operation ! If the op can’t manage her staff perhaps she’s the one in the wrong vocation!! Highly unprofessional posting such a post on social media in the first place !!

'Just as well. You should have quit while you were behind tbh.'

Yes ok I guess that's the level of maturity now. Good to know.

@Cloverleaf20 You might consider reading my pps. And not being so defensive.

@darasda You're just embarrassing yourself now.

2-3 OPs seem to not have liked what they hear and so are getting a bit personal and snarky rather than have a grown-up chat. Probably NHS managers. Gives people an inkling of what doctors have to put up with.

So I think I'll leave it here as life's too short.

Folks remember to thank the surgeons and all other clinical staff next time you see them who work tirelessly to save and improve lives and who have done this country proud during this pandemic.

And happy birthday NHS

@darasda

2-3 OPs seem to not have liked what they hear and so are getting a bit personal and snarky rather than have a grown-up chat. Probably NHS managers. Gives people an inkling of what doctors have to put up with.

So I think I'll leave it here as life's too short.

Folks remember to thank the surgeons and all other clinical staff next time you see them who work tirelessly to save and improve lives and who have done this country proud during this pandemic.

And happy birthday NHS

The support staff - admin, procurement, managers, cleaners. maintenance, porters and I'm sure others I have not mentioned are all to be thanked too, they are all needed to make the NHS work, we should not forget that either and they do not receive heady salaries but work their butts off nonetheless.

Honestly, I don't get this pile on, but then, well, my life is different. I've worked with darasdas, continue to do so (it pays well), get why lots can't or won't, it's not for everyone and I don't take abuse and don't get it.

The support staff - admin, procurement, managers, cleaners. maintenance, porters and I'm sure others I have not mentioned are all to be thanked too, they are all needed to make the NHS work, we should not forget that either and they do not receive heady salaries but work their butts off nonetheless.

So thank all of them, then.

@darasda Adult discussion a with small boy throwing stones isn’t feasible.

Some people prove @darasda’s point every time they post 😃

Bless. In fact @darasda has proved the OP’s point repeatedly.

But I simply refuse to take any bullshit from a here today gone tomorrow jobsworth who should really be managing the fruit and veg section at the local Tesco's, not telling highly skilled professionals how to do their job (aka say no to things and systems that help them do their job). These highly skilled professionals know better than anyone what their patients need and are the turnaround point in the whole system.

QED.

I get they need to have a certain confidence to do what they do. But has chucking notes on the floor for a nurse to pick up got to do with them being able to be a surgeon. Its just shitty behaviour and there is no excuse, bordering on bullying. Be arrogant and whatnot when it comes to the surgery, that is where they are the experts but outside a surgery there is no reason.

Have you seen the film "Malice" OP? The surgeon in that has a God complex.

@Spectre8

I get they need to have a certain confidence to do what they do. But has chucking notes on the floor for a nurse to pick up got to do with them being able to be a surgeon. Its just shitty behaviour and there is no excuse, bordering on bullying. Be arrogant and whatnot when it comes to the surgery, that is where they are the experts but outside a surgery there is no reason.

Well, that's true enough. One of my best friends in the world is an engineer, as is one of my first cousins, distressingly brilliant. The former's father is the same and became extraordinarily wealthy as a result, but no way he'd get away with such behaviour. And, as both engineers say, 'We design what is used and make sure it works,' and sometimes laugh at such, 'Lackeys!' 'I was just making that up, literally!' 'Surgeons, so I see, you failed on engineering course, what a shame! We get to clock off at weekends!' 'Medicine, didn't get past diffy-q, did you?' 'I was in diffy-q when I was 15,' and laugh their heads off.

My father's first two degrees were in engineering so it coloured me a bit.

My friend is an OR nurse and the surgeon threw a hypodermic needle at her because she handed him the wrong instrument. I said surely that's assault. She said it wasn't worth it to pursue it. I'm sure NASALT (lol) but the stereotype has to come from somewhere.

@iloveeverykindofcat
That is appalling. If she had main a complaint the surgeon would rightly have been in big trouble

You mentioned a female surgeon OP. What's she like?

I worked as an ENT nurse a decade ago and a couple of the surgeons definitely had god complexes - one was a relation of someone who helped found the NHS, he was the worst tbh. There were two female surgeons on the team, not sure how they could stand all that testosterone! Surgery still seems very much like an old boys club doesn't it?

@olympicsrock I know, I think she just didn't have the mental and physical energy for it after this last couple of years.

I don't think it's possible to make generalisations about female surgeons, any more than it really is for their male counterparts (though there are still many more of them, especially at consultant level). Some of the older ones had to be VERY tough to survive as a woman in surgery, and can be quite difficult to work with, but this is far from universal.

I actually got a lovely email yesterday from a consultant surgeon, thanking the whole team for our involvement in an emergency over the weekend (patient nearly bled out during what was supposed to be a fairly minor op). I was quite touched that he took the time to do that, it's the sort of thing that really helps team morale.