How much should each of us pay?!

[Amandasummers]

Sorry, really no idea wether to post on chat/relationship/money matters or what really, as I suppose it’s all a bit combined!

Any help or advise would be appreciated.

We are a family of 6 (2 adults, 4 children ranging from age 2-13)

I really need some help with how to arrange the family finances. I am in a lot of debt (working with a debt charity to fix this)

Moving forward, as a family, we need to come up with a solution to how much each of us should pay each month and what’s fair etc etc as I am struggling with feeling like everything that NEEDS paying, falls to me, leaving me continually struggling whilst partner can pretty much do as he likes, we’ve now reached a point where he’s asked me to “tell him how much he needs to give me every week” (obviously, this attitude is an issue in itself, but first and foremost, I would rather sort the financial bits out and then focus on his stinking attitude later)

If our set up was YOUR set up, what what yours/partners contributions look like??

Partner works full time and earns approx: £600 per week (drives to nearest town daily 10mins away then travels with boss each day to work meaning minimal travel costs)

I work minimal hours around the children, and earn approx £200 per week, take 4 children to and from (different) schools/nursery, provide all childcare and majority of any household chores/admin.

Rent & Household bills: £1000

Other expenses NOT included in this:

FOOD
Car tax, insurance, petrol
mobile phones
nappies, toiletries, household items (cleaning products, toilet rolls etc) clothing, uniform, clubs, trips, birthdays, Christmas, treats, days out, nursery stuff (lunch times, sponsorships, teacher gifts, donations etc)

Just leave. This won't improve.

There’s two popular schools of thought.

1. You pay an equal proportion of your salary each to cover general family living expenses. So you pay 3/4 of 200, e.g. 150 and he pays 3/4 of 600 e.g. 450.

The problem with this approach is when you’re on a low income it can leave the lower earner with a very small amount and the discrepancy between your leftover money and his is inequitable.

1. You pool all money and allow yourself the same amount of leftover money. In the example above you’d both have £100 per week.

Of course if you have debt you’re going to want to focus on diverting almost all that to debt repayment

“Purplewithred

Ok, straight answer. He earns c. £600/week. You earn £200/week. £800/week between you; two adults and 4 children to feed/ferry around/clothe etc etc.

I think he should ‘give you’ £500/week. You should keep £100 of your income for you. £600/week for family outgoings, and our of that should come everything including repayment of debts you accrued since marrying him and one car each. His £100 each/week (which is pretty generous given your joint income and 4 kids) is for his extra cars etc. Your £100 is for your own debts+Treats+ saving for a running away fund for you and DC.

But this should be a short term fix while you work on the relationship.“

This seems a very good plan.

Still haven’t had “the chat”

Honestly, I know it won’t go well so I’m avoiding it but I need to get a grip and sort this once and for all.

I know he will complain about having £100-150 a week “to himself” but I honestly don’t believe he realises that most people do not have this kind of “spare” income every month. Unless I’m the mad one and most people do have this kind of money, but I can’t see it somehow 😩

Stay resolute OP. You do need to sort this out sooner rather than later.

Are the numbers pretty stark? EG. As a household we bring home £800 per week (£600 OH; £200 OP). Outgoings are £400 per week and OH only pays £200? He spends £400 per week on himself?

Just wondering if his mates are all young, free & single and essentially have no responsibility of a family so are frivolous with their cash - is that his reference? If so, he needs some new mates or talk to ones with a similar set up as yourselves

I think @Purplewithred got it right

I'm a sahm. Joint account that his wage goes in. He pays all bills, food, running of both our cars, both mobiles, credit cards, cms for his dd, literally everything. And did do from the day he moved in. (I worked then pt before we had the dcs)

We get a small UC top up . Which goes in my account. (never got round to changing it) That covers taking kids out, any bits any of us need between pay days.

When I return to work. It will stay the same except my wage will replace the UC and be used for the same things

Does he know the extent of your debt? Would he care if you sat down with him and showed him a spread sheet of all the outgoings and what you both need to contribute to balance the books?

If he’s as immature and thoughtless as you’ve suggested then it seems to me he won’t be interested in looking at documents or listening to conversation. My approach would be to get all your divine ration together and come up with something concise. Then say to him ‘ I need X amount of money from you per week/month’ and have the paperwork to give him to show him the sums. Then have the conversation.

*all your documentation

LTB
He is financially abusive (and emotionally abusive too by the sounds of it).
You will be much much better off without him, financially and otherwise.
You will be entitled to universal credit which includes help with rent and childcare costs.
I can't believe he earns £600/week and doesn't pay the rent and council tax as a bare minimum.
I think you would benefit from reading "why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft and doing the freedom programme.

@Pipsquiggle he’s one of “those” Who ups and leaves whenever he feels like it, so there’s never been any form of regular income what so ever.....the most he has ever contributed is £100 a week and even that only a last a few weeks than stops.

He pays the car insurance (which is his, he added me on which didn’t cost anything but obviously it saves me having to pay for my own separately)

He will pay for holidays/trips away and things like that (the “fun”, occasional things) but I always feel guilty. It’s like I have to bitch and moan about struggling if there’s a birthday or something coming up and then he will give me some money for it but it’s stressful and a constant worry for me about wether he will follow through on that or not.

He will also pay for things that need doing to the house (usually things he has decided to do himself not because I’ve wanted them done) and then I never hear the end of it. So one of purchases and big purchases really, rather than the day to day life stuff, which I find really stressful and feel like I worry about every single day, he doesn’t understand that if we haven’t got the money to sort the garden out, then we have to save up to be able to do it. He just doesn’t get it.

I got paid less than 2 weeks ago and have nothing left.

He isn’t like “you must ask me” but it feels that way, because essentially, I do have to come to him cap in hand and I feel it will be thrown in my face whenever the opportunity arises.

He doesn’t hang around with a load of young single mates, but he associates with people who have shit attitudes and not a lot of responsibility. He buys whatever he wants, whenever he wants. Often utter nonsense (he’s the sort of person who will think nothing of wasting £400 on one of those rude on cars that you put a pound in outside a shop for the kids to sit in and it moves because “someone was selling it in the pub”) he buys cars constantly, or parts for cars or has them lowered or buys new seats or has the wheels refurbished etc etc randomly with no regards as to wether that really is the most important thing he should be doing. Armani jeans at over £100 for a 5 year old? Why not? £100 mochino trainers for a child of the same age? No problem!!! 😤

He doesn’t drive the cars. He works a lot, loves working and loves keeping busy, but loves spending money and it burns a hole in his pocket. He will then sit there and moan that he’s had to petrol in 5 different cars or get several cars fixed - stop buying them then, if we only had one each, then you only have to worry about one car, it really is that simple!!!

His mother is the main issue. He’s spoilt, he’s the golden child, he’s entitled and she thinks his antics are hilarious and is very similar herself, the difference is, she has family money and also no real idea about how the “real world” seems to work. If he runs out of money but wants to make a ridiculous purchase, she will ensure he can. Bails him out constantly.

Honestly just leave him. He is absolutely pointless and you’ll be far better off financially if you do.

It sounds like you’re coming to realise that no matter what HE says, this situation is massively unfair. He clearly thinks it’s your job to feed/clothe/house everyone including him and his child. Anything he gives is a bonus. No wonder he’s got so much money to spend on pointless crap.

You can’t put your kids into debt to prop up his lifestyle. You live together and have a child together (and regard all children as joint) so of course he is liable for half the rent/mortgage, half the bills, half the food etc. How could it be any other way? If you went out to a cafe with a friend and the bill was £8 and you just bunged £1 on the table and you walked off, would that be acceptable?

Id recommend emailing his mum and asking her to talk to him about it. Explain that it costs x amount to run the house each month (total cost of bills, food, petrol, clothes, school trips, childcare, rent) and your income is 800 a month, leaving you spiralling in to debt as he consistently fritters his 2400 cash away and fails to reliably allocate income to the cost of running a house and looking after the children. Explain that you are very sorry to ask for her support in coordinating DHs finances but you’re reaching breaking point and wondered if she could help you make a last attempt in helping him provide for his family in normal fashion

Give it a deadline and tell him. If things aren’t ironed out by September 1st he will need to leave with his child

I can only imagine how hard it’s going to be having ‘the talk’ with him. Of course he’s not going to suddenly say “oh i am so sorry, here, have whatever you need from now on”. Given what you say about his spending and attitude there is no hope at all - think of him as if he were an alcoholic or a drug addict.

Basically you’re going to have to be ready to end the relationship on the spot to avoid getting into more debt yourself. Do you have an exit plan?

@Saltyslug his mother is a BIG factor in why he’s like he is, this is a no go! If he went to her and boohoo’d that I’d told him he should be paying a fair bit of money every month she’d be horrified and encourage him to leave the relationship (as she does as every given opportunity!!!) I have NO idea how she thinks he will ever have a normal family life with anybody if this is his attitude. It’s painful dealing with her at the best of times and will be utterly fruitless, unfortunately!

@Purplewithred of course, you’re right, I know that no matter what I do, it’s his way or the highway and I know deep down, that’s what’s going to happen.

With regards to an exit plan, I rent our house in my name only, so It’s him he will be leaving. Truth be told, I rely on him for nothing, because I can’t, and I’ve done it alone enough times to know it makes not much difference at all when he’s here, other than the extra costs. The only tie I will have to him is our joint child, and that’s where it becomes difficult because we are very close, I am there every step of the way, to have her taken away because he can’t grow up is a bitter pill to swallow, she will be spoilt and I will be the boring, poor parent etc etc, she’ll get holidays and fancy clothes and whatever the hell she wants when she’s with him and that’s hard, I know it’s just life and I have to deal with it, but it’s really really hard for me to withstand. Then there’s the fear of him moving on, that one day, whoever he meets might be worth him growing up for, and that I wasn’t enough. It’s all so shit. I know I haven’t painted him in a good light, half the time I don’t even like him very much, but I do still love him so so much, I’m not “over him” in that regard and I’m scared I guess. I’m scared and I’m sad but I just can’t keep carrying everyone, every day of my life is spent full of dread and worry and stress about the next thing and the constant money worries is awful. With regards to my debt, I’m potentially facing a DRO or bankruptcy, I have nobody to shoulder any of the burden so I can deal with anything, it’s just all too much a lot of the time, I’m trying to hard to get myself together and get on top of things.

For goodness sake stop blaming his mother and hoping he'll change about become a decent human being, he won't.

Take some responsibility for your own finances, you have three children to support. Stop getting yourself into debt to pay for this selfish abusive arsehole. Tell him to move out, he has no legal right to stay as you're not married and he's not on the tenancy. Claim UC as a single person. You'll be loads better off.

change about and become

He should be giving you all the money, you pay all the bills, food, childcare etc and then you both split what is left (if there is anything) and get the same amount each.
I would just throw him out op. Honestly I'm exhausted just reading it, I don't know how you can live with someone so useless.
Get the help from the debt charities they will also help with budgeting, work out what your entitlements are etc. make a plan and live you life with your kids.

Yes then ask him to leave and organise your own finances in their entirety

Oh dear OP, such a hard situation for you to bear, particulalrly when you love him but can see how utterly useles & hopeless he is. I really hate it when people buy pointless / 'designer' stuff for children, particularly if it means you are going deeper into debt!

As well as a financial plan you need an exit plan as well.

It sounds as if all you need to do is gather up all your strength and tell him it's over, and you want him out now.

Your DD may be seduced in the short term but she'll soon work out her dad is a twat (mine did). Your other two kids will be ecstatic he's gone.

If it helps, he is stealing from you and your children. If someone else came in and took away food and replaced it with designer shoes you'd call the police.

You are WAY too good for him! Gather your strength and go for it.

I told him I wanted to discuss this and other things tonight, I was told ok he did not want to talk about money “because he’s just done 2k” (over the last few months, fixing his expensive car, that he bought without my knowledge, despite the fact I’d said we would discuss it when I got home from work because I didn’t think it was something we could commit to - mummy conspired with him and helped him out in secret)

The car is just sat there, untaxed, and hasn’t been driven since beginning of November last year and not particularly often before that!!!)

So he’s still whining about money he has cost himself, that he has spent on something zero benefit to anybody. Plus, he got paid for his regular job, plus a private job on Friday AND sold another car for £1800.

So he doesn’t want to talk about it (shock!!!)

I said “ok, I’ll carry on struggling with it all on my own then, no probs”

I then got accused of “starting”

£200 had appeared on the kitchen side, and I feel ungrateful for thinking “and??? It’s not enough” but it really isn’t and I know it isn’t. I suppose he thinks that because I won’t be much better off financially without him, if at all, that I should just be happy with whatever!

Did you say you earn £200/week and he earns £600/week? Rent and main bills (presumably CT, energy and water?) are £1000/month? Based on those figures alone (ignoring all the other expenses) he should be contributing £750/month. So work out how many months he's been living at yours, add it together and he owes you that much.

That's not even counting all the other expenses that he should be paying 75% of.

I suppose you'd need to deduct what he's actually given you throughout that time but it's bound to be much less than what he should have given.

Just LTB already, stop bankrupting yourself for this man. Your children deserve some stability.

Renting his own place and looking after his own child part time maybe the reality call he needs

Your child will probably like the material possessions he will provide but will quickly realise that he’s a Disney dad and not there for the important emotional supportive stuff