Should DH move abroad for job alone or should we join him? Dilemma.

[insertrandomusernamehere]

DH has been offered a job abroad in a Middle Eastern country to start in a few weeks and he’s accepted. As happy as I am for him; I’m absolutely terrified of what life is going to be like alone, raising our very young DC (18m and almost 3 year old). Both DC are at nursery PT and will be doing longer hours from September when I’d planned to return to work. This job offer has completely thrown me. It means changing our lives entirely- the children having to settle at a new nursery and adjust to a new way of life is panicking me the most. Or, maybe I’m projecting and am worrying about how I’ll cope in an environment/culture that is materialistic/superficial/misogynistic?

My plans for September also included taking driving lessons and becoming a bit more independent with a car for my sake and the DC. Husband is desperate for us to move but I’m not sure what to do. Should I throw caution to the wind, move us all out with him (pack our lives into boxes by the 2nd of July) and see how life works out for us all? Or, should I wait it out and let my husband settle there first, pass probation and get the ‘lay of the land’ before we join him? Or, should I stay put with the DC and we can take turns visiting one another every half term/end of term? The latter would mean less disruption for DC (my absolute priority) since they’ll still have their nursery space and key workers and other children they’re familiar with and would also mean I can focus on myself a bit too- I’m itching to get back to work. I’m scared I won’t cope alone but I won’t know until I try it, will I?

One of my biggest worries is that I’ve had horrendous PND since the birth of my older DC and I’ve needed my husband’s support to get things done and look after the children when I’ve not had the energy to get out of bed. I’m scared, left to my own devices, I might crumble. Massively. Having said that, he’ll be working silly hours in his new job so it’s not as if he’ll be able to help me out there BUT nannies/house help is cheap I’m the ME so I’d be able to buy in help? But, then I’ll worry they’re out of the British system/way of doing things and how that will negatively impact them when we come back? Argh, as you can tell, I’m struggling with all this massively. Can someone shed any light on living abroad with young children? Or even guide me on what I should do next? I’m so, so lost right now.

Apologies for the garbled post. I’ve been trying to sleep for ages but sleep just isn’t coming right now because of my anxiety around this impending move.

@tara66

Regarding places in that area - everyone always seems to like/love Oman but if it is Qatar, that's generally regarded as dull, boring and very hot but known to pay highest salaries.

Oman is amazing, I loved it. I also loved Yemen pre-war.

On reading your first post I thought that I wouldn't go at all.

Further posts just deepen that feeling!

I am a non-Caucasian trailing spouse ( sort of; I also have my own portable job now), lived in over 7 countries, and have brought my kids up alone with no family or friends. It has been mostly worth it for us, but it requires a great sense of adventure, thick skin, the ability to embrace different cultures, and a good expat package to help with all this. I did do a stint staying away from my husband for some time because he moved to a "difficult" country. That was very hard as well and I came to regret it. No easy decision here, I am afraid.

@Sleeplessem she said they're NOT a white family.

I would let him go but not go yourself, at least for the time being. He needs to make sure this is going to work first. Concentrate on getting your life together here as planned then you'll be in a stronger position to decide what you want.

@insertrandomusernamehere

DH has been offered a job abroad in a Middle Eastern country to start in a few weeks and he’s accepted. As happy as I am for him; I’m absolutely terrified of what life is going to be like alone, raising our very young DC (18m and almost 3 year old). Both DC are at nursery PT and will be doing longer hours from September when I’d planned to return to work. This job offer has completely thrown me. It means changing our lives entirely- the children having to settle at a new nursery and adjust to a new way of life is panicking me the most. Or, maybe I’m projecting and am worrying about how I’ll cope in an environment/culture that is materialistic/superficial/misogynistic?

My plans for September also included taking driving lessons and becoming a bit more independent with a car for my sake and the DC. Husband is desperate for us to move but I’m not sure what to do. Should I throw caution to the wind, move us all out with him (pack our lives into boxes by the 2nd of July) and see how life works out for us all? Or, should I wait it out and let my husband settle there first, pass probation and get the ‘lay of the land’ before we join him? Or, should I stay put with the DC and we can take turns visiting one another every half term/end of term? The latter would mean less disruption for DC (my absolute priority) since they’ll still have their nursery space and key workers and other children they’re familiar with and would also mean I can focus on myself a bit too- I’m itching to get back to work. I’m scared I won’t cope alone but I won’t know until I try it, will I?

One of my biggest worries is that I’ve had horrendous PND since the birth of my older DC and I’ve needed my husband’s support to get things done and look after the children when I’ve not had the energy to get out of bed. I’m scared, left to my own devices, I might crumble. Massively. Having said that, he’ll be working silly hours in his new job so it’s not as if he’ll be able to help me out there BUT nannies/house help is cheap I’m the ME so I’d be able to buy in help? But, then I’ll worry they’re out of the British system/way of doing things and how that will negatively impact them when we come back? Argh, as you can tell, I’m struggling with all this massively. Can someone shed any light on living abroad with young children? Or even guide me on what I should do next? I’m so, so lost right now.

Apologies for the garbled post. I’ve been trying to sleep for ages but sleep just isn’t coming right now because of my anxiety around this impending move.

OP are you Muslim? If so, that has a massive effect upon things out there.

I lived in that part of the world, and would recomend it to some people with small children.

In your case, dont follow him.
The money is not great - we got a 40% uplift, housing and school fees paid. Housing was exceedingly expensive.
Schooling can be great, but SEN is totally ignored, or worse means you fail the entrance test to get into school (everyone, even preschool, gets assessed)
Moving abroad puts a massive stress on your relationship. If it's already rocky, it will likely fail. Likewise living apart will likely destroy your marriage. Unless he can get a local job, it sounds like your marriage might be on shaky ground either way, and if you can keep your UK job you will be in a much better situation if you do split (I was getting close to 40% tax before we left, I'm now earning 16k)
A hotel room, during covid, in high summer, with 2 kids will be pants. You are then likely to end up with 2 weeks hotel quarantine on return to the UK (UAE, Bahrain, Oman, Qatar are all red listed, and KSA regularly close the borders so you would be stuck in kingdom).

Have you posted about this opportunity before? If not, it's worth doing a search, as someone else posted in what, from memory, was a pretty similar situation.

I believe living in the gulf was great for DHs career, great for the kids early years, great for us as a family, and absolutly crap for my career.

Oman is a very beautiful and exciting country, I am told. Have friends there and they are all non-Caucasian. In my experience, it is far easier to make friends in expat outposts than in your home country, though ofc they tend to leave. Maybe you should post in the Living Overseas forum and see if there is anyone in Oman who can advise.

Our marriage is shit atm already so probably wouldn't survive the long distance which is why DH is probably insisting we move with him.

Ultimately OP, only you can decide.
But this is worrying.

You have already said that the kids' stability is your No 1 priority.
It should also be your mental health, so ... given that your DH will have little time for family life if you do join him, & the marriage is unlikely to be in the kind of state currently where you are going to feel emotioanlly suppported by him ...
Is it better to stay on familiar turf, at LEAST until DH get past probabtion, for the kids' routine, & your own life?

Staying in the UK means less disruption for the kids, which will be easier for you. Staying means access to MH services (I hope you are already managing this at least via GP, if not additional counselling?)

There may be staff to help with the house & kids in the ME, but you are already thinking about cultural differences etc. And that's without the political implications of using (literally) cheap labour from a pool of highly disadvantaged & exploited people. It's not up to me to lecture anyone about that, but consider how it might make you feel.

You might also be very wary of a husband (who is also, I imagine, feeling the effects of the marriage currently being "shit") who is insisting that you up sticks & join him. Once you are there, how will you bring the children home, if he "insists" that he does not want you to?

As to PP saying "you can always come home" well that sounds like either naivety or an assumption that just because DH has landed a job in the ME you will be suddenly minted. Or that you personally will benefit.
Life can be very expensive in the ME, & you say his salary isn't amazing. How would you fund any return to the UK, even supposing you were free to just come back WITH your children? It's not just a question of flights is it - unless you own your own home, waiting empty for your return, there will be the issue of finding somewhere to live, paying deposits etc, all while you are in limbo between 2 countries.

Sorry to be negative OP but I can't see how ME life is going to benefit YOU. What will you do all day, apart from wifework, or supervising staff to do it for you? You don't like the heat, you are itching to get your own career restarted, learn to drive, & recover from PND.
Far from any direct support from friends & family, how likely is it that your main priorities are going to be met?

• kids' stability
• your own career

- independence/driving lessons - access to MH services

Hold back while DH gets settled, & really think about what is good for YOU & the DC. Not DH. Don't throw your own life onto a plane because DH is insisting that you go along with his plans. I fear you may be very exposed & vulnerable to a man you are currently in a 'shit marriage' with if you agree to join him in what you yourself describe as a misogynistic culture.

Hang on to your own goals OP. They are equally valid as DH's.
And keep thinking about the value of your independence.

If he is not Muslim, I honestly wouldn't worry too much about him holding the children hostage. It's possible in some countries but it's pretty rare. What I would worry about is the OP being in a risky financial position which makes it hard for her to return - no job, house etc. I know plenty of wives stuck in unhappy (and sometimes) marriages because they can't afford to relocate. You're talking thousands of pounds and she'll have to jump through hoops of she wants to claim benefits in the UK without a qualifying period.

Did you and your DH even discuss this new job before he accepted?

What are the pros to him taking the new job? My DH job moves around and I have previously gone with him. It is a big step, especially when the children are young, I felt very isolated away from my friends and family. I think everyone always thinks its such a big, new, fun adventure to move around and to different places but the reality can be quite different.

I think I would let him go and find the lay of the land and visit to see if you like it first. Is the new job for a set amount of time or indefinately?

OP, I’m really sorry but it sounds like your husband is effectively ending your marriage, but forcing your hand so that you’re the one who had to say it.

He’s purposefully taken a job in a country that that will likely not be very welcoming to your family.

He’s accepted a job that’s going to disadvantage your children in terms of access to education and resources.

You will lose out on independence to the extent that the issues you have now will be compounded as you’ll have to rely on him much more heavily for pretty much everything.

I think you’d be mad to go.

*and sometimes abusive

I would wait until he is settled in the new job and country. If he is happy after a few months and you have visited with children and see how you fee and the job is long term I will move the whole family; but certainly not by the 2nd of July as is too short notice to organise and move everything.

In the meantime I will get an au-pair or nanny to help you with the kids so you can have some support and don't crumble alone.

I have to say it is only on MN that I hear of husbands holding kids hostage. Never heard of it in the general expat community.

I spent my childhood in Bahrain in the 80s ( I was also an expat child; perhaps why I do not look upon expat life as unrelentingly awful) and I am not Muslim.

I'm scared I'd get there and be left just to get on with things.

So would I be, if married to a man who feels entitled to make life-changing monolateral decisions for the entire family.
And with whom couples counselling is having 'mixed results'.

Apart from commanding you to up sticks & be his camp-followers, he's not thought about you & the children at all in this, has he?

After your second update I would say don't move, no way

@MareofBeasttown

I have to say it is only on MN that I hear of husbands holding kids hostage. Never heard of it in the general expat community.

I spent my childhood in Bahrain in the 80s ( I was also an expat child; perhaps why I do not look upon expat life as unrelentingly awful) and I am not Muslim.

Really?

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/may/16/the-mothers-fighting-to-get-their-children-back-home-again

It's not specifically an ME problem. It happens all over the world.

If he is not Muslim, I honestly wouldn't worry too much about him holding the children hostage. It's possible in some countries but it's pretty rare

Its not 'holding hostage'. You can't just take kids to live from one country to another without the consent of their other parent. My German friend could not just return to Germany with the kids if her marriage in the UK broke down.

There were a lot of cases of child abduction when people started to travel more and marriages of people from different countries started to increase. And that is why laws were introduced to say both parents consent was needed if one parent wanted to change the kids home country.

@MareofBeasttown

I have to say it is only on MN that I hear of husbands holding kids hostage. Never heard of it in the general expat community.

I spent my childhood in Bahrain in the 80s ( I was also an expat child; perhaps why I do not look upon expat life as unrelentingly awful) and I am not Muslim.

I know of women who have experienced this BUT where the husband is Muslim. It's also a very common threat in messy divorces regardless of religion, although rarely carried through as usually the 'D'H doesn't really want the kids.

[quote CorianderBee]@Sleeplessem she said they're NOT a white family.
[/quote]
Yeah I misread it. Apologised for misreading, said depending on country those concerns are unfortunately valid

@insertrandomusernamehere

Our marriage is shit atm already so probably wouldn't survive the long distance which is why DH is probably insisting we move with him. We're currently doing couples counselling with mixed results. He wouldn't want custody of the DH if things went wrong- he knows how demanding being the primary parent is and he's not willing to sacrifice his wants and needs for the children. I'm scared I'd get there and be left just to get on with things.

Don't move. Don't do it. Please. This is the clincher. If you move, you're trapped for as long as he wants to trap you. In the ME, men hold all the cards. Even if it weren't the ME, the parent who wants to stay put holds all the cards (see the Hague Convention).

You have a job. You have the kids. Don't give that up for a man you're not 100% sure about. If the marriage breaks down, he'll have a job and the kids and you'll have nothing at all.

He's been invited for a month long induction where he'd be in a hotel. He wants us to come with him. We'll go but then I want to come back and see how he gets on there and how I cope here

Jeeze.

Given that the stated goal for DH's relocation is to take a year abroad to nix out the credit cards / debts, it's utterly ludicrous to pay for 3 extra return flights.

And as DH is fine living alone (prefers???) as even he himself says he can't cope with family life, what is he playing at with this suggestion?

Why would you spend all that money, to visit a country where you dislike the politics & heat? Let alone the disruption of it all, which will of course ALL be on you to handle.

@MareofBeasttown

I have to say it is only on MN that I hear of husbands holding kids hostage. Never heard of it in the general expat community.

I spent my childhood in Bahrain in the 80s ( I was also an expat child; perhaps why I do not look upon expat life as unrelentingly awful) and I am not Muslim.

I've been an expat with the kids in tow. My husband and I made sure we both understood the potential consequences before we left. We were living in a Hague Convention signatory country, which meant that neither of us could move the kids home without the other's permission. Living overseas is fantastic, mind-expanding fun - but it's not a walk in the park and it's not to be taken lightly.

@youllregretit

If he is not Muslim, I honestly wouldn't worry too much about him holding the children hostage. It's possible in some countries but it's pretty rare

Its not 'holding hostage'. You can't just take kids to live from one country to another without the consent of their other parent. My German friend could not just return to Germany with the kids if her marriage in the UK broke down.

There were a lot of cases of child abduction when people started to travel more and marriages of people from different countries started to increase. And that is why laws were introduced to say both parents consent was needed if one parent wanted to change the kids home country.

Oh I forgot that the laws of the Middle East and the UK are the same

Although if your German friend had good reason to return, they might well be granted permission. It depends what would be in the interests of the child.