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Original poster

Question for evangelical Christians or those who know about them. Help!

132 replies

Weetabecks · 20/06/2021 16:44

Bit long so as not to drip feed. I've had a really shit couple of years: bereavement, got divorced, downsized properties, physical and mental health problems (severe in both cases). Have been on and off friends/ acquaintance with a lady from when our DSons where in primary (they are now in a much bigger secondary and have drifted apart, amicably though, not fallen out). Friend invited me and some others to an Alpha style course which I attended (am into spirituality, "woo", meaning of life, etc but not really religious myself). Then we had a few Zooms like a pub quiz etc. Over lockdown. Which weren't especially religious just social. We went for a few walks. Then she invited me to a weekly prayer meeting. I said I couldn't go because of the day of the week; I always meet my school friends on this day (Zoom during pandemic and now irl again which is lovely). We have been doing this for years, it is non-negotiable and has been a source of support for me. I was kind of glad I had an excuse to avoid the prayer meeting 😳 However. Now there is a new prayer meeting on a different day of the week and friend has told me that she thought of me when she heard about the new session and might I want to come along? I just don't really want to. I am not sure if the new prayer meeting is because of me?? It is quite a small church compared to others i think.
I guess I just want to know whether my friend is actually that concerned about my immortal soul? (Maybe she isn't worried about it at all, I don't know?)
It isn't a Mormon or Jehovah's church, it is a Evangelical Christian one. So if you're Evangelical how would you feel about your friend politely declining your group? To what extent would you pursue someone who has showed a bit of interest in your faith? I feel a little bit like everyone at the Church is showing a bit too much interest in me. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? What did you do? I am absolutely hopeless at confruntation, and I don't want to hurt my friend's feelings but at the same time I don't know if she is actually my "friend" or just someone who thought they could "save" me. (Plus, if I am honest, I am very lonely as aside from my own school friends I don't really have any other friends, I am still single and not ready for a new relationship yet). We have had other mutual friends through school over the years who are Muslim, Jewish and atheist (very atheist if that makes sense) and as far as I know she hasn't ever invited them to this much Church stuff.

Tldr: i want to know my Evangelical Christian friend's motives and how to proceed

OP posts:
MilesOfSand · 22/06/2021 03:22

@sadperson16

If Jesus is the only way to heaven where does everyone else go?
I think it’s a bit like people who move out of Central London to the suburbs.
Anordinarymum · 22/06/2021 03:32

I used to work with a guy who was a pastor in an evangelical church.
He tried very hard to convert me, talking to me at every available opportunity about religion.
He was a nice man but oh lord was he boring and relentless. The final straw for me was when he told me that I a Catholic was not a christian.
How dare he say that to me ?

It was hard sell recruitment at it's very best/worst

Anonapapple · 22/06/2021 04:32

I am a Christian and like a pp poster said, I believe that Jesus is the only way to Heaven. I became a Christian as an adult and my life has also changed as a result, for the better. However, I used to find Evangelical Christian's the biggest turn-off ever and was very wary of them, feeling that they wanted me to join their cult. I came to have faith in Jesus through some very personal experiences that were unrelated to anyone else and can understand the Evangelical motivation. It does come from a place of love but I know from experience that it can come across as very overbearing. My stance is that if someone is interested and asks me questions, I would be delighted to share my faith. If I get the impression they aren't interested, I really respect that and I back off very, very easily. Nobody develops a faith because they were hounded. It has to come from deep inside. I am happy to help facilitate this journey if someone reaches out to me to do so, but I am very, very cautious not to overstep the mark otherwise. Most of my friends are not Christian and I know how to read the room 😄 Tell your friend you dont want to go and she will understand.

Interested in this thread?

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Philosophy & religion
Damnloginpopup · 22/06/2021 06:31

Evangelism is the Latin word for sanctimonious arrogance I think. I can't abide them or their bullshit. Give me a normal Christian anyday, one who goes about their craving for woo without trying to suck in other vulnerable people.

Cultists.

miltonj · 22/06/2021 06:39

Did you make out like you were disappointed that you couldn't attend the original meeting? If so she's probably just inviting you because she things you'd like to go.

corkernewyorker · 22/06/2021 06:44

It can be that you are a 'project' even if she doesn't consciously realise this. You have to be firm. If it is friendship then she should not take offence.

AlexaShutUp · 22/06/2021 07:24

The thing about Jesus being the only way to heaven puzzles me. I mean, if heaven is full of evangelical Christians doing their thing, who would actually want to go there anyway? It sounds like torture!

CathyorClaire · 22/06/2021 08:43

I don’t think that the bible does say that unbelievers will spend eternity in hell

It does.

CathyorClaire · 22/06/2021 08:45

@AlexaShutUp

The thing about Jesus being the only way to heaven puzzles me. I mean, if heaven is full of evangelical Christians doing their thing, who would actually want to go there anyway? It sounds like torture!
Oh yes to this ^^

And all that standing around endlessly worshipping sounds utterly exhausting Shock

xsquared · 22/06/2021 08:52

Just be honest with her. She would understand and you won't lose her friendship if she is a true friend.

romdowa · 22/06/2021 08:57

Easiest thing to do is just be honest. Tell her while you enjoyed the other activities, a prayer group is just not your thing but thank her for extending the invitation to you.

TurquoiseLemur · 22/06/2021 10:06

@CathyorClaire

I don’t think that the bible does say that unbelievers will spend eternity in hell

It does.

The Bible consist of many different books. There are many contradictory things in it.

And some very dodgy things indeed. That men in some circumstances are fully entitled to rape women. That women can be put to death if their menfolk have offended other men. And so on. Not really a great guide to living a civilised life.

I don't think Jesus according to any of the 4 Gospels in the New Testament, says anything about unbelievers spending eternity in hell.

People who say "The Bible says. . . " in that emphatic and dogmatic way are being very selective.

SheepGoBaaaa · 22/06/2021 11:01

Indeed, @TurquoiseLemur. You could sit about for days playing Bible Bingo. As you'd expect, a whole hotchpotch of history, letters, proverbs. hymns, genealogies, prophecies concerning different peoples etc etc, that started off as oral stuff handed on from person to person and was later written down over a very long period of time by multiple authors in different languages, and is sacred to lots of different religions and sects who don't all agree on what's canon and what's not, doesn't exactly have a single position on -- well, anything.

Which made an evangelical vicar I had the misfortune to come across in a village where I used to live fascinating to me, because he genuinely appeared to believe the Holy Spirit had personally supervised every word, and that therefore the Bible was internally consistent.

ImbarbaraB · 22/06/2021 11:05

I have similar with a good friend of mine that I just posted too

I’m actually a bit worried about her.

I’m pagan so definitely not interested Grin

TurquoiseLemur · 22/06/2021 15:10

@SheepGoBaaaa

Indeed, *@TurquoiseLemur*. You could sit about for days playing Bible Bingo. As you'd expect, a whole hotchpotch of history, letters, proverbs. hymns, genealogies, prophecies concerning different peoples etc etc, that started off as oral stuff handed on from person to person and was later written down over a very long period of time by multiple authors in different languages, and is sacred to lots of different religions and sects who don't all agree on what's canon and what's not, doesn't exactly have a single position on -- well, anything.

Which made an evangelical vicar I had the misfortune to come across in a village where I used to live fascinating to me, because he genuinely appeared to believe the Holy Spirit had personally supervised every word, and that therefore the Bible was internally consistent.

I do think the Evangelical position (or any religious position that puts forward absolutes) appeals very much to personality types who crave certainty and who feel anxious in the face of doubt or nuance. Such people want black-and-white answers, and that's what this sort of religion gives.

I don't feel it's an intelligence thing as such. I've met perfectly intelligent people who buy into it, people who when discussing any other subject (the environment, current affairs, history, quantum physics, whatever) are interested and interesting and totally able to cope with different opinions and theories. Yet, when it comes to religion, all their critical thinking skills fly straight out of the window.

"The Holy Spirit supervised every word" prompts a whole set of further questions, I would have thought! (I personally picture a pompous twit presiding over several quill-holding clerks in a fusty Dickensian office.)

CathyorClaire · 22/06/2021 16:05

The Bible consist of many different books. There are many contradictory things in it

Which makes it super convenient for picking and choosing the bits that play well when it comes to making disciples. Being selective works both ways.

I don't think Jesus according to any of the 4 Gospels in the New Testament, says anything about unbelievers spending eternity in hell

reasonsforhopejesus.com/jesus-say-hell/

TurquoiseLemur · 22/06/2021 16:16

[quote CathyorClaire]The Bible consist of many different books. There are many contradictory things in it

Which makes it super convenient for picking and choosing the bits that play well when it comes to making disciples. Being selective works both ways.

I don't think Jesus according to any of the 4 Gospels in the New Testament, says anything about unbelievers spending eternity in hell

reasonsforhopejesus.com/jesus-say-hell/[/quote]
First, the site you link to is hardly casting an independent eye on the Gospels.

It selects certain passages to make its case. Exactly what I pointed out above. It is very literal in its approach, assuming that the gospels are a verbatim account of what Jesus did and said. In fact, the Gospels were written by different people with different agendas, not even at the same time (and all significantly after Jesus' death). . .and they have been translated, re-translated, interpreted every which way, ever since.
To approach them all as if they are a literal account with no agenda on the part of the writers is simplistic and naive.

Two, I don't know where you personally sit on this discussion but I am very much an agnostic. Having been a member of two different denominations in the past and an attender at a couple of others. There's just too much simplistic thinking and bullying all around. Maybe God exists, maybe not, but organized religion is guilty of appalling behaviour over and above what can be attributed to rogue individuals. It's not for me.

Three,

CathyorClaire · 22/06/2021 16:26

the site you link to is hardly casting an independent eye on the Gospels

It doesn't need to. I was answering the point I quoted.

It is very literal in its approach, assuming that the gospels are a verbatim account of what Jesus did and said

As happens in every church up and down the land

In fact, the Gospels were written by different people with different agendas, not even at the same time (and all significantly after Jesus' death). . .and they have been translated, re-translated, interpreted every which way, ever since
To approach them all as if they are a literal account with no agenda on the part of the writers is simplistic and naive

I know. Try telling it to the believers.

springydaff · 22/06/2021 16:28
CathyorClaire · 22/06/2021 16:29

@springydaff

Grin
MilesOfSand · 22/06/2021 16:30

@CathyorClaire

I don’t think that the bible does say that unbelievers will spend eternity in hell

It does.

So much for forgiveness.
Original poster
Weetabecks · 22/06/2021 16:33

@Anonapapple

I am a Christian and like a pp poster said, I believe that Jesus is the only way to Heaven. I became a Christian as an adult and my life has also changed as a result, for the better. However, I used to find Evangelical Christian's the biggest turn-off ever and was very wary of them, feeling that they wanted me to join their cult. I came to have faith in Jesus through some very personal experiences that were unrelated to anyone else and can understand the Evangelical motivation. It does come from a place of love but I know from experience that it can come across as very overbearing. My stance is that if someone is interested and asks me questions, I would be delighted to share my faith. If I get the impression they aren't interested, I really respect that and I back off very, very easily. Nobody develops a faith because they were hounded. It has to come from deep inside. I am happy to help facilitate this journey if someone reaches out to me to do so, but I am very, very cautious not to overstep the mark otherwise. Most of my friends are not Christian and I know how to read the room 😄 Tell your friend you dont want to go and she will understand.
Where do you believe everyone else goes? Do you believe members of other denominations of Christianity to yours can get into Heaven? (Obviously don't answer if you don't want to, am genuinely curious not asking in a bad faith way.)
OP posts:
Original poster
Weetabecks · 22/06/2021 16:34

@miltonj

Did you make out like you were disappointed that you couldn't attend the original meeting? If so she's probably just inviting you because she things you'd like to go.
I may have sounded a bit disappointed 😶😳 I was trying to be polite...
OP posts:
Original poster
Weetabecks · 22/06/2021 16:36

@TurquoiseLemur I genuinely live in fear of Jehovah Witnesses coming round my house. It is my worst nightmare.

OP posts:
OneMoreForExtra · 22/06/2021 16:49

My answer to Jehovah's Witnesses at the door is always a polite "No thanks, I'm a scientist" . They never come back 😁

OP really interesting thread about all sorts of things, but to answer your original question I think you've had some good advice from PP with the best, simple clear wording being "Thanks for inviting me to the prayer meeting but it's not for me. Fancy coffee on Friday?" ie clearly declining with no excuses and clearly making an offer of ongoing secular friendship

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