Question for evangelical Christians or those who know about them. Help!

[Weetabecks]

Bit long so as not to drip feed. I've had a really shit couple of years: bereavement, got divorced, downsized properties, physical and mental health problems (severe in both cases). Have been on and off friends/ acquaintance with a lady from when our DSons where in primary (they are now in a much bigger secondary and have drifted apart, amicably though, not fallen out). Friend invited me and some others to an Alpha style course which I attended (am into spirituality, "woo", meaning of life, etc but not really religious myself). Then we had a few Zooms like a pub quiz etc. Over lockdown. Which weren't especially religious just social. We went for a few walks. Then she invited me to a weekly prayer meeting. I said I couldn't go because of the day of the week; I always meet my school friends on this day (Zoom during pandemic and now irl again which is lovely). We have been doing this for years, it is non-negotiable and has been a source of support for me. I was kind of glad I had an excuse to avoid the prayer meeting 😳 However. Now there is a new prayer meeting on a different day of the week and friend has told me that she thought of me when she heard about the new session and might I want to come along? I just don't really want to. I am not sure if the new prayer meeting is because of me?? It is quite a small church compared to others i think.
I guess I just want to know whether my friend is actually that concerned about my immortal soul? (Maybe she isn't worried about it at all, I don't know?)
It isn't a Mormon or Jehovah's church, it is a Evangelical Christian one. So if you're Evangelical how would you feel about your friend politely declining your group? To what extent would you pursue someone who has showed a bit of interest in your faith? I feel a little bit like everyone at the Church is showing a bit too much interest in me. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? What did you do? I am absolutely hopeless at confruntation, and I don't want to hurt my friend's feelings but at the same time I don't know if she is actually my "friend" or just someone who thought they could "save" me. (Plus, if I am honest, I am very lonely as aside from my own school friends I don't really have any other friends, I am still single and not ready for a new relationship yet). We have had other mutual friends through school over the years who are Muslim, Jewish and atheist (very atheist if that makes sense) and as far as I know she hasn't ever invited them to this much Church stuff.

Tldr: i want to know my Evangelical Christian friend's motives and how to proceed

@FriedasCarLoad that must be absolutely horrendous believing that people that you love will be damned. You must be beside yourself with worry...

"Thanks Mildred for thinking of me. I'm not really looking to join a prayer group or anything church-related at the moment, but if I am in the future I will let you know. Looking forwards to seeing you at the beach/picnic/let's arrange a coffee/meetup with the kids next week/saturday/in the summer . Hope you've had a good weekend, Margo."

I'm not an Evangelical Christian but I'm going to offer a slightly differing view as I've actually done the Alpha Course and have some friends who run them.

Most people who aren't interested in pursuing Christianity seem to drop out of Alpha before completing the 10/12 weeks of it. If people tend to stay the course and participate actively in the discussions, the leadership team usually assume that means that the participant wants go continue exploring the Christian faith and would want to support them if they wish to attend services and get Baptised.

After Alpha, you took part in the life of the church via the community activities on Zoom. So again, it might be reasonable that they'd assume you wanted to be a part of church life and it's quite reasonable for them to extend an invitation to a prayer service.

When invited, you didn't say "No thanks, it's not for me." You said you couldn't because you were busy.

You need to tell them you aren't interested in becoming a Christian. They don't know you aren't. By attending all of these things in the past and not declining an invitation outright, you've sent mixed messages. They think you want to be part of their community.

Just say, thank you for the invite but you don't want to take your faith exploration any further with them. Finish by saying you enjoy the friendship, you value you it and want it to continue.

Something like that happened to me once. I used to attend a parent and toddler group in a church hall. They decided to run a parenting course. I attended because they provided a crèche and it was a chance to have a child-free discussion.

A participant mentioned that they had made an agreement with their husband to bring up their child as a Christian, but the husband was now dismissive of his wife's beliefs in front of his child. I remarked (as I would of any religion) that this was wrong.

I didn't think anything of this but then received a hand-written post card inviting me to an Alpha course. It was posted from the organiser's holiday destination that year. I didn't respond. I also saw my name on a flip chat in the hall. The organiser then called me and talked to me about attending the course. I explained that we observed another religion and that I enjoyed attending the group, but that I didn't take part in the religious aspects of the group - for example the songs. I explained that I had never wanted to mislead her about my beliefs.

It turned out that the remark that I made on the course had led the organiser to think that I would like to firm a closer relationship with their church. I thanked her for her interest but said very firmly that whilst I liked attending the group, I wasn't interested in taking this any further. She never raised it again.

If Jesus is the only way to heaven where does everyone else go?

this is not the only approach to christianity, or to interest in things religious or spiritual.
why don't you try something less intense, say anglican, methodist, quaker.
but i think for your own benefit and to really live, inhabit the rest of your life, you need to learn how to speak your truth.
don't see it as a confrontation. don't make it one.
just say: no thanks, not for me.
all the best.

Sorry to barge in but I usually find telling these types that I'm catholic sends them running for the hills. Why is that?
I guess it's too late for you to tell her you're a catholic op, but I think it's fine to day, you know I've thought about it, and I have decided I'm not interested in pursuing religion right now.

Southern Baptist here. If you want to keep her friendship just be honest. Say: "I am not up for prayer meetings just now, but I will be fine with you and your friends praying for me." That way you are not committing yourself but you are also not disrespecting her beliefs. She can pray for you daily (and probably does) without it impacting your life.
I have a Jewish friend I have known for over 30 years. I pray for her and she prays for me. One of us has got to be right!!

I think you need to be very clear and very firm, OP. In my experience, evangelical Christians will not let it drop unless you make it really obvious that you don't want to know.

Hopefully, she'll accept it and just continue with the friendship without the evangelism. If she can't let it drop, then she clearly doesn't respect your wishes and the friendship isn't worth maintaining.

Some evangelical Christians might think you need saving. But it depends on their theology (atonement and salvation specifically). I am a Christian but not evangelical. Unlike a PP I believe in universal salvation.

Perfectly fine to say it's not for you especially as you have only just done alpha

Just be honest and say it's not for you

As Christians we are encouraged to invite friends - can be pressured some times
But it's fine when they say no and no offence taken

Myself I would like my friends to find faith but it doesn't feel something i want to push on them I believe it happens at the right time

I very much doubt that the prayer meeting has been set up for you. Simply that when she asked about the first prayer meeting, you said you were busy, she's then seen this other one so asked about that, because by saying you were busy (as we all do to be polite) you implied you might go if you weren't.

It's exactly the same as a friend asks "do you want to go to soft play on Thursday?" and you say you're busy, although it's really because you can't stand soft play, and later she sends you a message saying "I'm going to soft play on Friday instead now, do you want to come?"

Just say to her you don't really want to go to prayer meetings, and that's fine. There are times when churches can feel like Jesus said "I have come that you can have meetings and have them abundantly", no one goes to them all (even the vicar), and lots of people aren't keen on group prayer meetings.

Op my dp is a former evangelical Christian and now he is an atheist.

He went through a very tough time in his life and ended up doing Alpha and subsequently being invited to and then getting very involved with an evangelical church. He also ended up giving them a large amount of his money - over 5k.

I think he would say be honest about how you feel. He is still in touch with a good friend from that time. If this person isn’t a real friend and they fall away then that friendship wasn’t meant to be.

i think for your own benefit and to really live, inhabit the rest of your life, you need to learn how to speak your truth

You say that, but speaking from experience, it can be really challenging as a neurodivergent person to react in the "expected" way that evangelical religious people expect someone who's not interested in joining their religion to behave.

I've been told that the fact I've answered JW's questions at the door and not shut down the conversation immediately somehow led them to believe (repeatedly!) that I was interested in what they had to say, as apparently other people just say "no" and close the door on them if they're not interested!

I wouldn't do that even if it were 'the done thing' as I just couldn't, but I think the rules of engagement for evangelical religions don't take into account neurodivergent responses, so they're probably wasting their time getting excited about saving heaps of souls of neurodivergent people who have no idea their behaviour is being interpreted as showing an interest in the religion, when really they're just showing an interest in the person talking to them and/or just being polite!

I've been pulled into all sorts of religions and communes, etc over the years without realising, as a result of not responding in a neurotypical manner and missing the nuanced meaning behind invitations to find out more about this or that. Apparently it doesn't just mean "find out more about this or that" - it's a secret code for "I'm potentially open to joining your religion" - but as a neurodivergent person, I don't pick up on the unsaid messages, so I take invitations like this at face value and people misinterpret my intentions as a result.

I take each invitation literally, purely based on whether I'm interested in going to that one event, and then before I know it, I find myself preparing meditation rooms at Buddhist retreats and running stalls for fundraising drives just to help out and everyone's treating me like I'm somehow part of the institution, when I didn't agree to that at all as it had never been discussed!

@LonginesPrime

i think for your own benefit and to really live, inhabit the rest of your life, you need to learn how to speak your truth

You say that, but speaking from experience, it can be really challenging as a neurodivergent person to react in the "expected" way that evangelical religious people expect someone who's not interested in joining their religion to behave.

I've been told that the fact I've answered JW's questions at the door and not shut down the conversation immediately somehow led them to believe (repeatedly!) that I was interested in what they had to say, as apparently other people just say "no" and close the door on them if they're not interested!

I wouldn't do that even if it were 'the done thing' as I just couldn't, but I think the rules of engagement for evangelical religions don't take into account neurodivergent responses, so they're probably wasting their time getting excited about saving heaps of souls of neurodivergent people who have no idea their behaviour is being interpreted as showing an interest in the religion, when really they're just showing an interest in the person talking to them and/or just being polite!

I've been pulled into all sorts of religions and communes, etc over the years without realising, as a result of not responding in a neurotypical manner and missing the nuanced meaning behind invitations to find out more about this or that. Apparently it doesn't just mean "find out more about this or that" - it's a secret code for "I'm potentially open to joining your religion" - but as a neurodivergent person, I don't pick up on the unsaid messages, so I take invitations like this at face value and people misinterpret my intentions as a result.

I take each invitation literally, purely based on whether I'm interested in going to that one event, and then before I know it, I find myself preparing meditation rooms at Buddhist retreats and running stalls for fundraising drives just to help out and everyone's treating me like I'm somehow part of the institution, when I didn't agree to that at all as it had never been discussed!

Thanks for this you sound a lot like me 😅 I am very bad at reading other's intentions as I take things at face value and as a result (sadly!) I have a history of being taken advantage of, because of this. (Not that this friend is taking advantage.)

Plus the whole wanting to be liked / people pleaser thing especially as I am a bit isolated currently.

Also have been told I have been rude / cold in the past so now I overly compensate and act really interested in everything instead 😳

I'm a Christian (CofE) and our church also runs a similar event to Alpha called Christianity Explored. I would assume her intentions are good, but if you're not interested please just be politely honest 'thanks for inviting me but I'm not interested in coming to a prayer meeting at all. I enjoyed the social aspect of Alpha, so thanks for inviting me, but I won't be joining anything else'. I think her intentions are good.

P.S. I never go to our prayer meeting. I hate stuff like that!

I'm sure that her intentions are indeed good, but she will be coming at it from the misguided perspective that you need to be saved. This can lead people to be very pushy, so you do need to be quite assertive about the fact that you're not interested.

As PPs said be friendly but firm. It’s both her belief that she’s saving you and also there’s a duty on her to proselytise, to spread the Good News.

She will keep trying if you sound like a “maybe”.

I attended a church that was run along evangelical lines for a while. They did a lot of charity and community work, some of which I benefited from and I also became very involved in doing their work. At the time I thought the religion and the charity were separate, that the charity came about from the need for religious people to do good works. But it absolutely wasn't. They did do a lot of good stuff but the underlying agenda was always to bring people into the church. TBH I'm not even sure it was always to bring people to God, just to swell the numbers at church, depending on who at the church you were dealing with.

They were very much taught that their own salvation would be brought about by showing others the Light, so it wasn't all about them believing friends needed salvation, there was a large part of needing to do it for their own souls.

I grew up in a religious household and have known many evangelical christians. Chances are your friend thinks you are destined for eternal damnation and therefore is trying to save you. Which, while annoying, is nicer than her letting you burn, right? I don't share the beliefs of the born again crew, but I must admit I kinda judge any of them who AREN'T relentlessly pursuing everyone in the name of salvation. If you knew everyone you loved was going to be thrown into an eternal volcano why on earth wouldn't you spend every second of your life trying to stop that happening if you knew how to stop it?

It's a belief that baffles me but I have a lot of respect for the integrity of the street speakers and the evangelising folk. It must be horrible believing that so many people are going to Hell.

In short, yes I think your friend is trying to save your eternal soul.

I hear you, OP - it's like I've worked so hard on acting in socially acceptable ways around people, and then I find out "noo, that's only for those situations- there's a completely different set of unwritten social rules for this situation". (sigh)

And then these kinds of situations come up, things like "that's weird - why are they talking like I'm a part of their group just because I've gone to a few non-religious events? What could possibly give them the idea I want to be a Christian/Buddhist/whatever just because I like going on walks with them?"

From my perspective, it seems utterly bizarre that they would think think I'm interested in joining their religion and treat me like I've agreed to something they've never even asked me, just because I took an interest in a few seemingly unrelated aspects of it to be polite or out of curiosity.

But from their perspective, they end up really surprised that I've "suddenly changed my mind" and they wonder what "put me off", because from their perspective, I was getting more and more involved and it seemed obvious to them that I was keen on the whole package.

What they don't appreciate is that it's not that I've suddenly changed my mind, it's that I've suddenly realised there's been a huge misunderstanding and my interest has been misconstrued as something more!

It's all so awkward, but these kinds of odd situations that other people don't seem to end up in have added some very interesting twists and turns to my life over the years, so I wouldn't change it for a second!

@LonginesPrime

I hear you, OP - it's like I've worked so hard on acting in socially acceptable ways around people, and then I find out "noo, that's only for those situations- there's a completely different set of unwritten social rules for this situation". (sigh)

And then these kinds of situations come up, things like "that's weird - why are they talking like I'm a part of their group just because I've gone to a few non-religious events? What could possibly give them the idea I want to be a Christian/Buddhist/whatever just because I like going on walks with them?"

From my perspective, it seems utterly bizarre that they would think think I'm interested in joining their religion and treat me like I've agreed to something they've never even asked me, just because I took an interest in a few seemingly unrelated aspects of it to be polite or out of curiosity.

But from their perspective, they end up really surprised that I've "suddenly changed my mind" and they wonder what "put me off", because from their perspective, I was getting more and more involved and it seemed obvious to them that I was keen on the whole package.

What they don't appreciate is that it's not that I've suddenly changed my mind, it's that I've suddenly realised there's been a huge misunderstanding and my interest has been misconstrued as something more!

It's all so awkward, but these kinds of odd situations that other people don't seem to end up in have added some very interesting twists and turns to my life over the years, so I wouldn't change it for a second!

YY! This 💯 what are there so many rules? It makes things very confusing

@AutoGroup

I attended a church that was run along evangelical lines for a while. They did a lot of charity and community work, some of which I benefited from and I also became very involved in doing their work. At the time I thought the religion and the charity were separate, that the charity came about from the need for religious people to do good works. But it absolutely wasn't. They did do a lot of good stuff but the underlying agenda was always to bring people into the church. TBH I'm not even sure it was always to bring people to God, just to swell the numbers at church, depending on who at the church you were dealing with.

They were very much taught that their own salvation would be brought about by showing others the Light, so it wasn't all about them believing friends needed salvation, there was a large part of needing to do it for their own souls.

This church also does a lot of "outreach" - homelessness (soup kitchens etc), toddler groups, working with refugees and asylum seekers. I thought "good works" was a must in Christianity? Though perhaps I am mistaken. The amount of converts they attract must be vanishingly small.

To be fair it sort of seems like you made out you were interested but couldn't come on that specific day. Another day has become available so she's thought of you and asked? The same thing might have happened if it was a book group or knitting group.

Just maybe be a bit clearer saying you've
Given it some thought and you prefer to work through spiritual/religious stuff on your own or something.