Question for evangelical Christians or those who know about them. Help!

[Weetabecks]

Bit long so as not to drip feed. I've had a really shit couple of years: bereavement, got divorced, downsized properties, physical and mental health problems (severe in both cases). Have been on and off friends/ acquaintance with a lady from when our DSons where in primary (they are now in a much bigger secondary and have drifted apart, amicably though, not fallen out). Friend invited me and some others to an Alpha style course which I attended (am into spirituality, "woo", meaning of life, etc but not really religious myself). Then we had a few Zooms like a pub quiz etc. Over lockdown. Which weren't especially religious just social. We went for a few walks. Then she invited me to a weekly prayer meeting. I said I couldn't go because of the day of the week; I always meet my school friends on this day (Zoom during pandemic and now irl again which is lovely). We have been doing this for years, it is non-negotiable and has been a source of support for me. I was kind of glad I had an excuse to avoid the prayer meeting 😳 However. Now there is a new prayer meeting on a different day of the week and friend has told me that she thought of me when she heard about the new session and might I want to come along? I just don't really want to. I am not sure if the new prayer meeting is because of me?? It is quite a small church compared to others i think.
I guess I just want to know whether my friend is actually that concerned about my immortal soul? (Maybe she isn't worried about it at all, I don't know?)
It isn't a Mormon or Jehovah's church, it is a Evangelical Christian one. So if you're Evangelical how would you feel about your friend politely declining your group? To what extent would you pursue someone who has showed a bit of interest in your faith? I feel a little bit like everyone at the Church is showing a bit too much interest in me. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? What did you do? I am absolutely hopeless at confruntation, and I don't want to hurt my friend's feelings but at the same time I don't know if she is actually my "friend" or just someone who thought they could "save" me. (Plus, if I am honest, I am very lonely as aside from my own school friends I don't really have any other friends, I am still single and not ready for a new relationship yet). We have had other mutual friends through school over the years who are Muslim, Jewish and atheist (very atheist if that makes sense) and as far as I know she hasn't ever invited them to this much Church stuff.

Tldr: i want to know my Evangelical Christian friend's motives and how to proceed

The prayer meeting isn't aimed at you, guaranteed. Evangelicals have never needed an excuse to get on their hind legs and yap into thin air.

Your friend is unlikely to be offended if you tell her the prayer meeting isn't for you but you will need to be firm. Dithering will be interpreted as intersest and by extension a potential opportunity to save a soul.

If you don't want to be prayed for let her know that too. Chances are more than reasonable you're already on that hit list and confidences definitely aren't respected when it come to lifting them before the lord.

interest

@feetuppp

Your friend won't mind or take it personally, don't be worried. As the other poster said, they're normally a very friendly bunch. She just probably wanted to offer you the opportunity in case you were interested and is very unlikely to take offence.

I don't know how you can say this.

The friend might or might not mind, might or might not take it personally. I personally had a couple of experiences of friendly Evangelical Christians back in the day- they were friendly until the day they realized I wasn't going to join their church. The friendliness evaporated right there.

The friend might be a lovely person but Evangelical C has an agenda (the clue's in the name). They feel it is their moral duty to win people over.

I am a Christian and attend an evangelical church. I occasionally invite friends to church things but don’t mind at all if they are not interested. I am not too worried for their souls as am a universalist so believe we will all eventually go to Heaven.

I am not too worried for their souls as am a universalist so believe we will all eventually go to Heaven

How do you square that with the biblical teaching that says the opposite?

@CathyorClaire I don’t think that the bible does say that unbelievers will spend eternity in hell. If you are truly interested there are books written about Christian Universalism. Or google and read articles. Or join the Facebook biblical Christian universalist group. Whilst it may not be a mainstream view there are lots of churches and individual Christians who do subscribe to view of universalism.

The whole Evangelical thing is just creepy, whichever church it relates to. I had a very vulnerable relative who was actively pursued and encouraged to distance themselves from their family and existing friends by an Evangelical group. I found all of them sanctimonious and unpleasant, ironically they didn't seem to have any real Christian values or virtues.

@fluffythedragonslayer

I grew up in a religious household and have known many evangelical christians. Chances are your friend thinks you are destined for eternal damnation and therefore is trying to save you. Which, while annoying, is nicer than her letting you burn, right? I don't share the beliefs of the born again crew, but I must admit I kinda judge any of them who AREN'T relentlessly pursuing everyone in the name of salvation. If you knew everyone you loved was going to be thrown into an eternal volcano why on earth wouldn't you spend every second of your life trying to stop that happening if you knew how to stop it?

It's a belief that baffles me but I have a lot of respect for the integrity of the street speakers and the evangelising folk. It must be horrible believing that so many people are going to Hell.

In short, yes I think your friend is trying to save your eternal soul.

I have literally no respect for anyone arrogant enough to think that anyone not safely ensconced in the bosom of one specific stripe of one version of one religion is headed for the fiery pits of hell.

@Siepie

I grew up in evangelical Christianity, but left in my 20s. From childhood, I was taught that it was up to me to 'save' my friends. They were genuinely my friends, which is why I didn't want them to suffer eternally and so invited them to church, prayed for them, etc. If a friend wasn't interested in Christianity, I still loved them and stayed friends with them.

Some other people in the church deliberately made friends with 'unchurched' often vulnerable people, just to try and convert them. They would drop people who weren't interested in Christianity. If this is what your friend is like, she might not want to stay friends- but if you found out that she only wanted to be friends in order to convert you, would you want to stay friends with her anyway?

I guess I just don't want to face the reality of being seen as a vulnerable person (even though I am in that I have been recently bereaved, divorced and am neurodiverse - though friend doesn't know that I am ND) in need of being saved 😕 As apposed to someone she wants to be friends with!

Can I ask would Evangelical Christians belief that they won't see their relatives who have died again, if they weren't also Christians, because they are in Hell?

Apologies 3wildones I see you have already answered my question, I didn't know there was a name for it - Universalism. I know a lot of my friends (Christian, agnostics, a bit spiritual) all think they will meet up with loved ones "on the other side"

Thankyou Rickitarr - it is funny you should mention Quakers as I have met a few who have been really nice and I think their way of living chimes with me (as an autistic person?) because they are supposed to be honest and straight and they don't lie 😂 but like you their services don't seem like something I would enjoy. In fact I would find it terrifying I think!! Thankyou very much for the link I will check it out.

It just all seems a bit premature and worrying about nothing to me
A lot of evangelicals might be like that about trying to convert etc but I'm sure there's lots who aren't as well and as OP hasn't told her friend she doesn't fact this prayer thing anyway we just don't know
I can see why the friend might think OP might be interested in the first place if she did that course

It’s the kind of worrying that comes from not being sure of the form, not being naturally gifted at figuring out the form and finding yourself faced with a very, very keen person.

No concern is premature if you’re feeling it, is it?

There just seems to be a lot assuming that the person will be that way that's all when we don't know that yet
But anyway I've given advice earlier in the thread

Be prepared. The motto of all scouts, guides and autists.

@fluffythedragonslayer

I grew up in a religious household and have known many evangelical christians. Chances are your friend thinks you are destined for eternal damnation and therefore is trying to save you. Which, while annoying, is nicer than her letting you burn, right? I don't share the beliefs of the born again crew, but I must admit I kinda judge any of them who AREN'T relentlessly pursuing everyone in the name of salvation. If you knew everyone you loved was going to be thrown into an eternal volcano why on earth wouldn't you spend every second of your life trying to stop that happening if you knew how to stop it?

It's a belief that baffles me but I have a lot of respect for the integrity of the street speakers and the evangelising folk. It must be horrible believing that so many people are going to Hell.

In short, yes I think your friend is trying to save your eternal soul.

These people don't KNOW that everyone who doesn't share the same beliefs is going to hell; they simply believe it.

There are all sorts of beliefs out there. None of them should be a carte blanche to harass and/or misinform others (which is what a lot of evangelizing consists of.)

And ESPECIALLY the street kind. I have heard, over the years, a lot of homophobic ranting from such people. Anyone found doing it should be arrested and charged-they are guilty of hate speech, it is actually illegal. (How ever much THEY believe themselves to be right. This counts for nothing-the men who butchered Lee Rigby believed that THEY were right, the man who blew up the Manchester Arena. etc. Plenty of Christians in the history of the world have done appalling things in the belief that they were entitled to do so.)

There were (perhaps there still are, Covid notwithstanding) a group of street evangelists who used to stand in the middle of Chester, especially on a Saturday, evangelising. Not only was a lot of the evangelising homophobic, it also was trying to persuade random passersby to give up medication they had been prescribed. A friend of mine had a friend with bipolar. When well, the bipolar friend was able to see this dangerous nonsense for what it is; when unwell, he was very suggestible to this kind of thing and would stop his medication on the basis of what they were saying.

If an evangelizer believes that someone/anyone is going to hell, that is THEIR issue. (Plenty in the Bible that suggests otherwise, btw.) They don't deserve respect for broadcasting their neurosis to every random person they encounter. They are actually dangerous.

@RickiTarr

Be prepared. The motto of all scouts, guides and autists.

I love this!

@LonginesPrime

i think for your own benefit and to really live, inhabit the rest of your life, you need to learn how to speak your truth

You say that, but speaking from experience, it can be really challenging as a neurodivergent person to react in the "expected" way that evangelical religious people expect someone who's not interested in joining their religion to behave.

I've been told that the fact I've answered JW's questions at the door and not shut down the conversation immediately somehow led them to believe (repeatedly!) that I was interested in what they had to say, as apparently other people just say "no" and close the door on them if they're not interested!

I wouldn't do that even if it were 'the done thing' as I just couldn't, but I think the rules of engagement for evangelical religions don't take into account neurodivergent responses, so they're probably wasting their time getting excited about saving heaps of souls of neurodivergent people who have no idea their behaviour is being interpreted as showing an interest in the religion, when really they're just showing an interest in the person talking to them and/or just being polite!

I've been pulled into all sorts of religions and communes, etc over the years without realising, as a result of not responding in a neurotypical manner and missing the nuanced meaning behind invitations to find out more about this or that. Apparently it doesn't just mean "find out more about this or that" - it's a secret code for "I'm potentially open to joining your religion" - but as a neurodivergent person, I don't pick up on the unsaid messages, so I take invitations like this at face value and people misinterpret my intentions as a result.

I take each invitation literally, purely based on whether I'm interested in going to that one event, and then before I know it, I find myself preparing meditation rooms at Buddhist retreats and running stalls for fundraising drives just to help out and everyone's treating me like I'm somehow part of the institution, when I didn't agree to that at all as it had never been discussed!

I don't know about other groups but I do know that the Jehovah Witnesses view ANY amount of conversation on the doorstep as interest , make an actual note of it. . . and then return. They target such people deliberately. It seems to completely pass them by that some (probably most?) people making conversation are just "being polite", or feel cornered, or don't know quite how to react.

If you don't want to become a JW, you do absolutely need to shut the conversation down straightaway. You are not being rude; if anything THEY are being rude banging on your door without being asked. They are also being supremely arrogant, actually believing as they do that they are doing you a favour.

Don't say "I am interested in the Jehovah Witnesses" unless they want to become a member. Do say "I am not interested in what you are offering" or (even if it's not true) "I belong to another religion." That usually drives them away.

I love this!

I decided evangelical Christianity wasn't for me when I went with some friends from university to a service and they had a drum kit, four electric guitars, and gave me a little paper flag to wave if I felt the Holy Spirit. When the American guest minister leading the service jumped off the stage and roamed between the chairs pointing and people and shouting "you have sinned!" I was very tempted to run away.

I'm much happier at an Anglican Church with an organ, choir, and vicar who stays at the front where I can see them.

Sorry to repeat myself, but can I just caution that many high church/ bells and smells churches have readily embraced the process of actively wooing new members, so of course you should keep looking if you're interested, but I wish people would stop presenting it as the ideal solution, because it's NOT, and you won't know until you walk in. Actually, it's often worth having a careful look at their websites, they often have good clues.

LonginesPrime, that's interesting. but after it has happened once or twice, are you not in the mindset of, forewarned is forearmed.
i mean tthey might be thinking why would someone get so involved in their activities if that person had absolutely no interest in joining up or subscribing to their beliefs.
i can understand your thought process, but why would you get caught a second time; can't you predict that is likely to be the scenario with religious/group people ?

@CathyorClaire

I am not too worried for their souls as am a universalist so believe we will all eventually go to Heaven

How do you square that with the biblical teaching that says the opposite?

it depends how you view the status of biblical writings. textual criticism looks to the context in which these writings were probably/possible compiled. so one considers the PR angle, as we would call it now. who was in charge, what group were they seeking to promote, what opposition were they encountering... etc. it's like looking at history, to remember that the winners get to write it.

but why would you get caught a second time; can't you predict that is likely to be the scenario with religious/group people ?

It's not like I was googling religious groups or responding to a flyer explaining their mission statement - you meet people through work or some random thing and start chatting and hanging out. Then they ask if you want to go to this thing they go to that they think you might find interesting (sometimes they say things like "it's in the church, but it's not a religious thing").

I ended up helping at the Buddhist retreat after going to a meditation course at a CofE church, so no, it didn't occur to me that it would be a Buddhist thing, given that it was being hosted by a different religion!

Plus, I don't feel I was duped or anything - I satisfied my curiosity and met some interesting people, and I've not yet been held against my will (so far)!

IMO, the only way I could avoid ever doing anything social that might have a religious element would be to select friends and acquaintances based on their religions, as more often than not, they're simply trying to share the things they value with you rather than aggressively trying to recruit you - I'm prepared to accept the risk of being momentarily mistaken for a willing recruit by the occasional religious sect for the benefit of getting to know interesting people and finding out more about their beliefs and the things they value in life.

Urgh. I really don't like it when a friend, or anyone, backs me into a corner. She could have said "there's another prayer meeting on such-and-such day if you're interested?" and left it there.

You could say with a smile "no thank you but thanks for thinking of me" and leave it there.. I can't stress enough that if your refusal puts her off a friendship with you then she REALLY isn't worth having. (Though I've been wooed and schmoozed in the past and it hurt a LOT when I realised they were trying to recruit me. It was like grooming.)

Stick with nice, safe people who don't boss you about or put pressure on you.

BTW we're all vulnerable so don't take it personally.

BTW btw I'm a Christian and this pushy stuff turns my stomach: show not tell, folks. If someone is interested you can tell if they ask. (but then, I don't believe people are going to hell for not believing in Jesus.)