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Wayne Couzens admits raping and kidnapping Sarah Everard *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

125 replies

MyGhastIsFlabbered · 08/06/2021 10:19

Sorry, couldn't find the news topic. This has just made me so angry today. What is it with make entitlement? They think they can just do what they want with us women?

OP posts:
LobotomisedIceSkatingFan · 08/06/2021 22:53

This reply has been deleted

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Atmywitsend29 · 08/06/2021 22:54

The bit that fucks me off the most is that he's not entered a plea for her murder. He "accepts responsibility for her killing" but is awaiting an assessment in regards to his mental state. Which is usually a precursor to a plea of "manslaughter and diminished responsibility"

The man is an actively serving police officer. He is part of an armed unit.

Furious does not cover it.

callmemaybee · 08/06/2021 22:55

An ex detective was on the news explaining patronisingly that flashing isn't something the police are interested in as it's low level.

I thought this was patronising too. But then I found out that the police aren’t compelled to investigate any crime reported to them aside from serious offences like rape or murder. So it’s still disgusting that sexual harassment is too “low level” for the police and offenders can act with impunity - but at the same time, the police don’t have to investigate it?

IheartJKR · 08/06/2021 22:56

RIP sarah Flowers

FlowersFlowersFlowers for all the women who’ve been victims of male violence.

MsTSwift · 08/06/2021 22:58

That Pitchfork horror started out flashing. Am sure for many sex offenders it’s the beginning of their journey to further more serious assaults and should be dealt with properly not just dismissed and minimised. What normal man flashes at randoms?

NiceGerbil · 08/06/2021 22:58

A woman has been abducted from the street, Christ only knows what done, and murdered.

He will have lots of other victims in the past.

I don't agree with capital punishment.
I don't think prison should be unbearable, or that violence/ sexual violence/ suicide should be taken for granted.

However. Things like this aren't that uncommon- this case got lots of coverage.

Women are angry and upset and are expressing that.

All this
Oh most men are lovely
You women are disgusting

Why? I don't get it. Are women supposed to uphold the utmost decorum and ethics even when they are really upset by an atrocity like this?

If he kills himself he will have done that. Not posters on this thread.
If he is attacked in prison other men will have done that.
Not posters on this this thread.

But yeah despite what he's done, and all of the above. It's WOMEN who are a disgrace.

Fucks sake.

callmemaybee · 08/06/2021 22:59

I don’t want him to kill himself. It’s too little, too late frankly.

FlorenceWintle · 08/06/2021 23:03

[quote callmemaybee]@FlorenceWintle I don’t want to speculate but the offence is:

He pleaded guilty to kidnapping Ms Everard "unlawfully and by force or fraud"

So it’s equally possible he used force or fraud. We don’t know anything else.[/quote]
Absolutely true and I’m only speculating of course. It just seems more likely that he used his position as a police officer to get her into the car, as opposed to forcibly dragging her in next to a busy road.

It’s just depressing and upsetting that he might’ve done that because most of us would trust a police officer.

NiceGerbil · 08/06/2021 23:03

@FlorenceWintle

True but I can’t imagine he dragged her in kicking and struggling. I know the spot, it’s a busy main road.
No I think he could.

He may have had s weapon and made her go quietly.
He may have dragged her- it's London and the bystander effect is strong. If he was much stronger and had his hand over her mouth he could have done it. Drivers are not paying attention.
Some victims react by freezing etc. It's common but not well understood. If you know you're overpowered it's not a conscious thing. Sort of rabbit in headlights unable to act.
Any number of things.

He could have been in police uniform and got her that way.

I mean who knows.

The fact is he did it one way or another. Got her I mean.

denverRegina · 08/06/2021 23:05

@LobotomisedIceSkatingFan no. What are you talking about? Because this isn't a thread about women committing rape.

Don't answer that anyway. I'm leaving it here. Just stop. You've clearly no real experience in dealing with sex offenders.

NiceGerbil · 08/06/2021 23:20

Florence I don't know where you live but things in London with the police,

I haven't seen a foot patrol apart from eg armed in town after the London bridge attack, or in areas where there might be trouble etc for years. I'm in a London borough and I've not seen police generally walking around for maybe 15 years in my area.

They ALWAYS are in pairs. Always. And never on foot anyway. If there are police they're in cars, vans. Out of those, in pairs or more usually lots. I don't think there's patrolling in most areas even in cars tbh. You only see them whizzing past with lights going.

So a lone man approaching at night, whatever he was wearing, would strike me as a lone man first and foremost.

He could have been a charming conman type of course.

And personally, I don't trust the police at all and never have tbh.

That aside. He got her. Does it matter how?

What really bothers me is that he had committed a red flag sexual crime days earlier and they had his plate and nothing. Doesn't surprise me. But they SHOULD. sexually motivated crimes however serious have impact on the victims, these men are known to escalate. Where's the prevention? Why not get them early?

And he was a copper FFS. He will have had access to vulnerable people, women. Leverage. This is a common thing to be exploited by dodgy men in the police.

And also. The heavy handed reaction to the vigil to me was making a point. One of theirs. Mainly women. A woman murdered by one of their own that they probably could and should have stopped earlier. Turning out aggressive and mob handed.

I have lived with the met for all my life and to me, as my force, they were making a point.

This whole thing is appalling.

Just a few months before the sisters who were murdered. Met police took selfies with the bodies and sent them to watsapp groups for colleagues.

That's the mindset we're dealing with.

Some are great I'm sure but the met as a force is rotten to the core.

Millymog · 08/06/2021 23:21

I have not read this whole thread.

I do legal work (not criminal but I feel like i know enough) to be drawn to the analysis of this case.

But more. Urrrgggh for my 12 year old daughter.

I realise this is a very unusual circumstance but could you (realistically) coach a 12 year old girl NOT TO GET INTO THE UNMARKED CAR of a police man even if he shows you his police ID, even if it is COVID19 lock down etc (assuming they were complete strangers which I do).

NiceGerbil · 08/06/2021 23:23

Oh don't be unfair Denver.

First we must discuss how lovely men are.

Then we must acknowledge the prevalence of women abducting men off the street and raping and murdering them.

Obviously.

Yes women can be convicted as accessories to rape. This is very very very rare. 2001 the story that poster found. 20 years ago.

In law rape in England and Wales involves penetration with a penis. Look it up. It's easy to find- Google sex offences act England.

NiceGerbil · 08/06/2021 23:26

@Millymog

I have not read this whole thread. I do legal work (not criminal but I feel like i know enough) to be drawn to the analysis of this case.

But more. Urrrgggh for my 12 year old daughter.

I realise this is a very unusual circumstance but could you (realistically) coach a 12 year old girl NOT TO GET INTO THE UNMARKED CAR of a police man even if he shows you his police ID, even if it is COVID19 lock down etc (assuming they were complete strangers which I do).

Yes of course you can.

But my 12yo would not be able to fight off a grown man which is much more likely.

It's easier for him to grab her.

I would be extremely suspicious. Because. They don't patrol ever really. They are always in pairs.

I don't understand the assumption that he tricked her. Maybe he did. I don't know obviously. My guess is he just grabbed her though. I mean anything. Punched get in the face then carried her. Who knows.

He got her. Does it really matter how?

IdblowJonSnow · 08/06/2021 23:27

@Hallyup6

Women are not just as likely at all to carry out similar crimes. Heard of statistics? Hmm

Millymog · 08/06/2021 23:29

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callmemaybee · 08/06/2021 23:29

@NiceGerbil I guess posters are speculating on whether he levered his position as an authoritative/trusted figure to commit this monstrosity or not. It adds another layer of deception I suppose. Though the point is moot considering we now know he’s an officer and has pleaded guilty

Millymog · 08/06/2021 23:30

i guess my above post justfies my over protective stance on my children however independent and trusting I want them to be etc

callmemaybee · 08/06/2021 23:32

@Millymog I may be naive, but I would probably tell her not to get in the car and if necessary she can explain herself at a later time if the situation escalates and he is actually an officer carrying out his lawful duty. Perhaps she can phone the police there and then to explain her worries of being targeted by a rogue officer - a real officer wouldn’t care.

Millymog · 08/06/2021 23:34

my earlier "23.29"

reference to resisting arrest.

is purely in the context of C19 lock down measures namely at the time on that date it was - to be debated - should anyone ((let alone a single female) be walking the streets after a social indoor meeting with friends)) after 9.30pm.

I have definitely done that at that age in that area of London (20 years ago).

I would not do it now and would do everything to prevent my (currently 12 year old) daughter from doing it.

denverRegina · 08/06/2021 23:35

"Oh don't be unfair Denver.

First we must discuss how lovely men are.

Then we must acknowledge the prevalence of women abducting men off the street and raping and murdering them.

Obviously."

Quite

Millymog · 08/06/2021 23:35

callmemaybee -

I agree with you.

NiceGerbil · 08/06/2021 23:45

@Millymog

NiceGerbil

I agree with all of your last post.

But are the questions not:

  • Do you tell your teenager to trust the circumstances if an (unmarked) police car comes up next to them and requires them to get in? (producing evidence of police force etc) -

many people would say "get in the car" resisting arrest etc is a criminal offence.

  • if someone points a gun at you do you get in the car? - me - probably yes.

and in terms of the criminal mindset to murder - presumably that was there way before he even spotted her for abduction walking along the road. (hence above questions about what to teach teens about the police).

I haven't broached that specific situation no, hadn't occurred to me. There's loads of situations you can't cover them all.

But no.

If they've not done anything why are they wanting to take them?
Why are they by themselves? Why is the car unmarked? What is the worst that can happen if they refuse/ run away?

I am teaching mine to be suspicious yes. I've told them that if anyone approaches them even if it seems innocuous eg directions. To automatically see that as something not right because no normal person in a busy place like ours decides to ask a child.
That sort of thing.

However. If anything did happen like this then the bloke would just need to grab her. Same with me. Maybe you'd fight. Maybe you wouldn't. Who knows.

It's just down to luck. She had the misfortune to be going about her normal business when a man who was a predator came in her path. And most often that's game over because men are generally bigger stronger more violent and more practiced at violence than us.

NiceGerbil · 08/06/2021 23:46

Oh come on Milly. Seriously?!

NiceGerbil · 08/06/2021 23:49

On the trust thing. This is random.

There was an episode of CSI where a man dressed as a fireman. Set smoke in the hall. Went and knocked woman opened door. In he went. Trusted- smoke- danger. Similar anyway. Can't remember exactly.

A few months later I saw in the local paper that a man had been imprisoned for rape etc. He'd copied it. Police gear. Smoke. She opened door. He pushed her in. She was a work colleague iirc but he had mask.

It wasn't mentioned as a copycat in the report but I recognised it immediately.

How do you guard against that? Warn against it?

You can't.