Ds (12) and porn

[Beargogogo]

We are pretty careful with what ds accesses at home, we have locks on to stop him from accessing anything inappropriate. However he has been to his nan’s this afternoon and both he and his sister have taken their iPads. I didn’t go - DH did - but apparently he’s been able to have some time without anyone seeing what he’s doing and she hasn’t got the controls on her internet.
Ds and dd iPads seem to be linked somehow when on her WiFi because dd put her iPad on when she got back and was confronted with images of naked women urinating / naked women lying in urine. The search was ‘women peeing humiliation’ (spelling incorrectly). The page must have downloaded at her nan’s. She is 5.
I’ve been through ds’s history and he has searched - today when at his nan’s - lesbian peeing humiliation, peeing on floor, humiliating women pee etc etc.

I am so ill equipped to deal with this. I’d sooner it was just normal porn. It’s not. It’s pretty nasty stuff - or the images on dd’s iPad were. I’m not actually able to access the others now because our filter blocks it. Some were naked women, bent over, with blood all over the floor.

It sounds incredibly hard OP!
I would think about telling his school and asking them to keep an eye on any behaviour that they think is odd or if they overhear any conversations.

@nolongersurprised

but you know even if he grew up and had an interest in bloody being peed on or peeing on people, it doesnt mean he would abuse. Half these people just go online now and find people who are into the same weird shit and then go to their normal job during the day

The search was looking for women being humiliated, though. Not mutual water sports.

I agree that his dad needs to step up in a big way.

There are women who want to do that too. Look, with all the other issues added, it helps to not jump the gun. A kid isnt responsible for all the ills of the porn industry because he looked at some dodgy porn. Dont map his entire life out as a rapist when the kids 12 and if the internet isnt locked down then its not hard to see some weird stuff even accidentally. Its catastrophising

Lots of women who like to be humiliated during sex? The OP said one of the images had a woman covered in blood. Do lots of women like that too?

I’m not saying he’s a rapist, but it’s not healthy, normal sexual interest for a 12 year old. Breasts, bums, vulvas, vaginas sure. A search for, “hot, sexy surfer chicks”, sure. But googling looking for women being “humiliated”? I don’t think that’s healthy at all

No advice. Just wanted to say I'm surprised at the amount of minimisation from posters on here, given that you've known your son all his life and they've never met him. Those rushing to defend your son have said nothing about your much younger daughter and your concerns about her vulnerability.

I'm sorry, you have my total sympathy. I also know quite a few women abused by family members as children, it can and does happen.

I find the searches and humiliation very worrying, and I used to work in safeguarding.

I hope you find help OP, and trust your instincts

There are lots of ways to encourage and grow empathy OP - your feelings about your son may show that you are feeling distant - and as the most important woman in his life there is a lot that you can do to work on this. Search online, don’t come at this obviously, but even things like getting a pet that he has to care for, making him much more aware and respectful of women - you have a window of opportunity.

That is not to blame you. But just going at this in the ‘tell him he’s wrong’ and keep the kids apart will not shift whatever is underlying this in your son.

A kid isnt responsible for all the ills of the porn industry because he looked at some dodgy porn. Dont map his entire life out as a rapist when the kids 12. I’d agree with this too. He’s not 16 or 18, he’s a child. He’s feeling very cut off I imagine from people. Take this very seriously but don’t further estrange him. Bring him closer.

even things like getting a pet that he has to care for
OP, please don't do this.
Your instincts not to leave the children alone together are sound.
Do all you can to get him help, but don't be talked into the 'he is just a child' complacency some PPs appear to advocate. Watch him like a hawk.

@theThreeofWeevils why on earth wouldn’t she get him a pet?! He is a child and there is a window of opportunity to help him. There are several ways to do that and getting him to care for another living creature, to grow empathy and respect are pretty critical.

Or is the OP to basically cut him off psychologically from now until age 18? What on earth is that going to do if he is troubled now?

@nolongersurprised

Lots of women who like to be humiliated during sex? The OP said one of the images had a woman covered in blood. Do lots of women like that too?

I’m not saying he’s a rapist, but it’s not healthy, normal sexual interest for a 12 year old. Breasts, bums, vulvas, vaginas sure. A search for, “hot, sexy surfer chicks”, sure. But googling looking for women being “humiliated”? I don’t think that’s healthy at all

I didnt say it was healthy. I said that a lot of people like weird shit and it doesnt mean they are going to turn out to be abusers. People DO like gore stuff and horror without wanting to kill people. People do have odd sexual interests. Its not nice to know stuff about your kid like that. It doesnt necessarily mean anything fgs. This boy needs work on understanding certain concepts, but the tone of some of these posts is way off and not helping. The internet had no family protections on it. All sorts of shit was a click away.

“Gore and horror” and “odd sexual interests” can’t really be conflated with actively searching for images of naked women being humiliated though, can they?

I think it’s a problem because his social relationships are few and difficult and there may well not be “normal” interactions with girls to temper his emerging view of women. The OP knows him and loves him and is concerned.

Yikes, take those iPads away.

There are plenty of charities that can help deal with this.
That's not just an inquisitive child that heard things as school.

Double check your Internet settings.
Only allow him supervised time on his IPAD.

There is some kind of app that can notify a set person ( ie parents or a partner) if they try to access anything online that would be classed as pornography.

I hope you get things sorted.

why on earth wouldn’t she get him a pet?!
@WalkthisWayUK, I hope you are not really so naive that you need 'why not ' spelled out for you. Giving a helpless animal to a pubescent child manifesting niche sexual interests doesn't seem to me to be a wise or humane move.
Sorry, OP, if this adds to your distress. As an alert, protective, non-minimising mother, you will be able to help your son.

why on earth wouldn’t she get him a pet?!

Because she doesn’t want to throw an innocent animal under the bus??

The OP doesn’t trust her son around her daughter. Let alone an animal.

Is it possible that the boys were laughing about it an he looked out of curiosity or to be in on the joke rather than anything sexual. I think that's far more likely at age 12. I'd just calmly explain why this isn't ok and say no more about it

My brother and his friends were sexually abusing me when they were 14 and I was 7.

I wish to god my mother had been as switched in as the OP.

I'm rather unnerved by the 'he is just a child' brigade.

OP I've no advice but I think you are right to be concerned. Could you talk to his school's safeguarding lead?

@OhToBeASeahorse

My brother and his friends were sexually abusing me when they were 14 and I was 7.

I wish to god my mother had been as switched in as the OP.

I'm rather unnerved by the 'he is just a child' brigade.

OP I've no advice but I think you are right to be concerned. Could you talk to his school's safeguarding lead?

I’m so sorry this happened to you but thank you for sharing it. The OP has stated she is very concerned about him, not just because of the porn, but because he lacks empathy etc. Yes, 12 is still a child and they need help and protection but equally 12 year olds are capable of horrific abuses. The amount of vitriol the OP was receiving really concerned me. Telling her to be kind, to ignore her gut feeling about her own son whom we have never met, and minimising her concerns. There are many abusive men out there. Many rapists. Many paedophiles. Many murderers. They all have mothers who are, and probably were, terrified like OP. Being a good mum isn’t condoning and accepting your children’s behaviour regardless, it’s seeing where there are issues and trying to help them. It’s protecting your other children from your dangerous children. I hate this attitude that we should sit back and wait and see if he escalates to abusing his sister “have you taught your daughter about consent and to tell you if she is touched?” By the time she has come to speak about this to her mum it will be too late. It will have happened to her. That can’t be reversed. I may be prevented though.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken completely agree. And thank you x

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken - thank you for your post. It is so important.

@OhToBeASeahorse

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken I know you referenced my post, I just want to clarify I am not trying to put the responsibility on a 5 year old. I’m trying to tell OP that her son needs therapy and her daughter DOES need to be told that mummy is a safe person to go to. Especially if she is worried about her son. It really wasn’t about sitting back and watching it escalate, that would be a terrible strategy. I just think she needs to do both.

@korawick12345

I would suggest getting in contact with social care as well on a safeguarding level with regards to your daughter. There may be specialist services in your area for CYP with concerning sexual behaviour we have an excellent team in my local authority.

All those posters who are judging the OP I can only assume don’t have any experience of dealing with CYP with really challenging needs. I would strongly suggest they go and read about Jonty Bravery

Yes this! I was thinking of the mistakes made with JB and assuming all behaviours are asd related - just because an individual has asd doesnt mean they don't also have a personality disorder and assuming otherwise can result in terrible outcomes like that poor boy at the tate

[quote Thehawki]@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken I know you referenced my post, I just want to clarify I am not trying to put the responsibility on a 5 year old. I’m trying to tell OP that her son needs therapy and her daughter DOES need to be told that mummy is a safe person to go to. Especially if she is worried about her son. It really wasn’t about sitting back and watching it escalate, that would be a terrible strategy. I just think she needs to do both.[/quote]
That’s perfectly reasonable.
Your post did only mention speaking to the daughter and putting the responsibility on her. That one post, combined with the others who suggested she was a terrible mother for being concerned, had built a very negative first half of the the thread.
I was heartened to see that the tide had turned and that most posters were supportive of her and giving her advice how to proceed. However, many OPs might have muted the thread at an earlier point and not seen these though after being accused of being a terrible mum, being blamed for his behaviour etc.

I have an ASD kid, though mine is much younger. I'd be engaging all the services possible asap to get some help and get him on the radar as needing extra support. Tell the GP and tell the school about your concerns, maybe try some of the charities too? Children's MH services are pushed but I think that's why you should get them involved and get on a waiting list now. This is something they might prioritise.

Maybe tell your daughter's teacher you are having difficulties with her brother so they can keep an extra eye on her too?

I don't think this is really something you can deal with alone, and you need specific help. He is not neurotypical so the usual things will not work with him. A specialist might have ways of making him understand what is acceptable, even if he can't exactly empathise.

@theThreeofWeevils

why on earth wouldn’t she get him a pet?! *@WalkthisWayUK*, I hope you are not really so naive that you need 'why not ' spelled out for you. Giving a helpless animal to a pubescent child manifesting niche sexual interests doesn't seem to me to be a wise or humane move. Sorry, OP, if this adds to your distress. As an alert, protective, non-minimising mother, you will be able to help your son.

This is a level of hysteria that is not going to help. There is taking the boy’s searches seriously, and there is a hysterical response that he’s going to abuse animals?!

And why would the family not be helping that boy to bond and connect in a healthy way when he’s showing signs of needing a lot of help with this?

It’s one thing keeping a serious eye on him. It’s another to write off a 12 year old and keep him away from everything. This boy is going to turn 18 at some point and go out into the world. There are some critical years in between

What do you suggest the family does to help this child become someone who no-one needs to feel wary of at age 18?

It seems that this boy is going to be totally isolated now until he leaves home and I do fear that if this happens he will indeed be a risk to himself or other people and unable to form good relationships.