Ds (12) and porn

[Beargogogo]

We are pretty careful with what ds accesses at home, we have locks on to stop him from accessing anything inappropriate. However he has been to his nan’s this afternoon and both he and his sister have taken their iPads. I didn’t go - DH did - but apparently he’s been able to have some time without anyone seeing what he’s doing and she hasn’t got the controls on her internet.
Ds and dd iPads seem to be linked somehow when on her WiFi because dd put her iPad on when she got back and was confronted with images of naked women urinating / naked women lying in urine. The search was ‘women peeing humiliation’ (spelling incorrectly). The page must have downloaded at her nan’s. She is 5.
I’ve been through ds’s history and he has searched - today when at his nan’s - lesbian peeing humiliation, peeing on floor, humiliating women pee etc etc.

I am so ill equipped to deal with this. I’d sooner it was just normal porn. It’s not. It’s pretty nasty stuff - or the images on dd’s iPad were. I’m not actually able to access the others now because our filter blocks it. Some were naked women, bent over, with blood all over the floor.

Sorry, that was for @nowigetbanned

@Beargogogo

Thank you nowigetbanned I’m very sorry that happened to you. Some of what I feel is a gut feeling and I realise it’s an awful thing to think about your dc but my daughter is my dc as well and I think he’s a risk to her.

You sound like a far, far better than my estranged mother ever was. Please follow your instincts.

I apologise for 'troll hunting' OP.

I do think you need counselling ASAP though as I find the way you speak about your son really sad.

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

God OP, I was all ready to say that you were being far too harsh and you shouldn't feel that way about your ds, but after your updates I kind of understand why you must feel like that. That's a really difficult situation. Like you say what can really be done. *@stressbandit*, why do they dete you off the site? Why are you not allowed to say what happened to you? That's ridiculous!

I'm constantly deleted off of mumsnet whenever I start any kind of post about my brother abusing me or my parents being swingers (not relevant to this thread I know).

Mumsnet just delete and block my IP with no explanation.

I highly doubt they'll bother to explain here, other.

Is he in mainstream school?
I think since you truly believe he has reduced empathy and youre worried about his attitude to sex, then you should look into help from an autism charity. Id really prioritise this. Id even consider getting in touch with a local SEN school that has teens and ask how they cover issues around consent and empathy in autistic teenagers.
I bet youre feeling quite out of your depth. Please dont forget that he is still a little boy. He isnt a predator. Yes its all really uncomfortable and yes its highlighted issues and deficiencies and brought other worries and mixed feelings up.
There is really not enough help out there for this sort of thing. Sex education in mainstrean schools dont cover enough.

If he doesnt care about other peoples feelings, is it really noone elses feelings or just strangers? Does he care about anyone else?
Would he be more receptive to the idea of what is legal or illegal. What consequences would be to certain things. Whats right and wrong?
Sounds like his emotional needs are quite significant and you all need support

@nowigetbanned

Mumsnet will delete me off the site for what I am about to say, they always do.

My older brother raped me. He was 'weird' lacking in boundaries and empathy and extremely sadistic.

Sibling abuse is really common.

Look after your DD.

That's a shame you'd get banned for that.

My dh was also a victim of sibling rape and I will not leave my two dc alone together either

God lord OP I wish I could troll hunt but I sympathize while I honestly can’t empathise.

Trust your instinct and protect your DD

Im so sorry that you will be judged and marginalized for this but do it

Was reading earlier. care.org.uk/news/2020/10/government-still-failing-to-protect-children-from-extreme-porn-warns-campaign-group www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57143746 www.christian.org.uk/news/online-safety-bill-ditches-age-verification-checks-for-porn/

It's quite upsetting reading about how you describe your son. I think your family need to go to therapy, he is just a child.

@MiddleClassMother

It's quite upsetting reading about how you describe your son. I think your family need to go to therapy, he is just a child.

I agree. MN won't be able to help you here. The situation is tough but the way you talk about your own child is so worrying.

Op knows her son and we don't. Trust your instincts op and don't be gaslighted by strangers on here. Get professional help for your son and keep your dd safe.

Thanks - I think the best thing is to try and get ds some support whilst being mindful of not leaving dd with him unsupervised.
Maybe I’m overreacting but I’d sooner overreact and he’d be safe than under-react and her be harmed. That would be dreadful for both of them.
I’ve just had a talk with ds about consent (again) and how porn is not an accurate depiction of real life. I asked him if he knew what coerced meant and he did and I said possibly those women had been coerced. He said some might choose to be in porn and I said - if they had any other choices is it likely they’d choose to be in porn? And he said no.
I talked about porn being for the male gaze, in the main, and how although it’s normal to be interested in sex and he mustn’t be ashamed of that any relationship he has in the future has to be consensual. I talked about enthusiastic consent and how the porn industry objectifies women.
It’ll probably make no difference but I’ve tried.
I told him he can come to me with anything and I will help him and that I love him.

I do love him. I’m just mindful of his behaviour and how he is.

When I was prepubescent I found the idea of a boy at school I fancied wetting himself waiting in the playground at the end of playtime.

OP to me, it sounds like you are doing all you can and are a fantastic mother.

I have some experience of an extremely challenging brother (who has never left home, at 45) whom I believe was totally excused for his 'dubious' behaviour and is totally protected. All wrong. When my parents die, I expect all hell will break loose.

You sound so responsible and aware of the issues.

This is clearly an over the top comparison (in fact in NO WAY a comparison), your son is not like this, but 'We Need To talk About Kevin' is famous, on National Curriculums, for a reason. It resonated.

This sort of thing is a worry for parents everywhere, you are just brave enough to address it. I hope it will all work out well, it could well be a blip and nothing. Sending love.

how can you do portray your son in such manner? I think you are the problem here. Please get some help as this is not normal!!

There are a lot of horrible men with horrible sexual fetishes that denigrate and harm women.

Presumably some start at puberty, like the OP’s son, yet the poster who made the above comment seems to think it’s the fault of the mothers when men turn out to be sexual sadists.

I think the OP is showing clarity here.

How long have you had concerns about his behaviours op? You state he's weird full stop, however as a child on the spectrum, this isn't a choice. He needs help. Having a parent who can post openly in this manner about her child, is more than likely not helping. He probably senses that you don't like him, so rather than being able to talk to you about these things, he's seeking them out on the internet. He cried and was shaking, that reads to me that he was ashamed. Please get help for him. Also have some family therapy for yourself, dh and ds to help this family dynamic.

I would take this very seriously. However that doesn’t have to mean putting everything onto your son. But as a family it’s kind of time to step up to the harsh reality and be extra parental for a few years.

I say years because if this was my DS I’d be keeping an extremely close eye. There may be more going on. He may be being bullied. He may be having strange thoughts. Even YouTube has lots of not great sexual content that he could have just been ‘led down’.

I think you have to take a multi-pronged approach and keep it up for a good while. I’d -

• restrict quite severely internet access to certain sites - no YouTube at all for a certain amount of time - no internet access to any site - get really good at your parental controls and check his ipad and phone regularly. This isn’t the first time he’s accessed porn and he’s way too young.
• don’t leave either your kids unsupervised together for a good while
• teach both your kids about signs of abuse, body privacy, awareness - do it separately with books and let them ask questions. This isn’t a one off, it takes quite a while
• you could get counseling for DS but often counseling is quite low quality so only do it if it’s going to be pretty good and he can ask questions and get good answers. Just talking about feelings, esp if you are autistic, is not the easiest or best path to take
• talk to NSPCC and find out as much as you can about keeping children safe on the internet

There is probably more, but just telling DS it’s wrong isn’t enough I don’t think.

Trust your gut op. There are children out there unfortunately born with no empathy. It is truly I believe wiring in their brain. Some parts of the brain have not developed properly.
Trust your gut, protect your daughter and I think you are to be commended for being so honest about about your wony

He was crying because he thought he was in trouble.
When I first started talking to him he got upset again and said ‘I’ll never look at anything like that again.’ I said - the thing is, you’ll want to, and lots of people look at porn - it’s a big business. But you aren’t old enough to deal with it at the moment and the way that porn portrays women is neither realistic nor helpful.
I’ve been clear that he shouldn’t be ashamed about sex or being interested in sex but that any relationship he has must be consensual.

Can your DH have more involvement here? You say he was angry and you intervened, but what does his anger look like? I mean, sometimes it's appropriate to demonstrate a robust unhappiness with inappropriate behaviour, it sends a message about what will not be tolerated. Could your intervention have undermined an interaction that might have actually got through to your son?

I also think it could be difficult if your son is reading your dislike of him. He might respond better to his father's anger than his mother's dislike.

And I'm not trying to put you down here OP, some of the things you are writing are really quite concerning and it is very natural to feel as you do. There is some hope that he appeared to be upset and crying about things as that tends to be a recognition of the seriousness of the situation.

Just throwing out ideas here just to see if other ways forward might be possible ...I would try to be the calm, reasonable person in this situation too, but what if that approach is not connecting?

Its a jorney and a process OP. He might not get it straight away, but these are conversations to keep having. Our children developing into adulthood with sexualities can cause some really conflicting feelings, especially if it doesnt seem its as wholesome as youd imagined. Dont forget that youre dealing with a few different issues here and theyve kind of been lumped together as if hes some pervert abuser in the making but he hasnt actually done anything to anyone nor said he would. Obviously be careful about leaving them unsupervised anyway, but you know even if he grew up and had an interest in bloody being peed on or peeing on people, it doesnt mean he would abuse. Half these people just go online now and find people who are into the same weird shit and then go to their normal job during the day.
Consent can be taught as neccesary, whether he cares about it, he can learn the law and why and follow it.

Parenting autistic teens, i think you do have to be creative with how you teach them social stuff that doesnt come naturally. I know its hard though.

but you know even if he grew up and had an interest in bloody being peed on or peeing on people, it doesnt mean he would abuse. Half these people just go online now and find people who are into the same weird shit and then go to their normal job during the day

The search was looking for women being humiliated, though. Not mutual water sports.

I agree that his dad needs to step up in a big way.

A few of my 11 year old students were looking at licking bum hole images. A lot of it they think is funny or they’re interested. I wouldn’t worry too much about him looking things up but carry on explaining to him about being kind and got to deal with people if they don’t act the way he wants them to.

My best friends brother is highly autistic and humps me every time I see him. He’s 6’5” and 18stone and his mum is 5” size 6 so it can be quite scary as I always worry he’s going to hurt her but there has never been any issues like that.

I would suggest getting in contact with social care as well on a safeguarding level with regards to your daughter. There may be specialist services in your area for CYP with concerning sexual behaviour we have an excellent team in my local authority.

All those posters who are judging the OP I can only assume don’t have any experience of dealing with CYP with really challenging needs. I would strongly suggest they go and read about Jonty Bravery

I think the part that has upset me is that it was specifically women being humiliated.
Generic porn wouldn’t have upset me so much.
This feels harder to navigate.