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Original poster

Boris and Carrie married?

675 replies

DonkeysNotDisney · 29/05/2021 19:57

Anyone else seen the news?? Another baby on the way, relationship on the rocks, or good old fashioned age gap love?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Serpenta · 31/05/2021 16:07

Ego

Tubbs99 · 31/05/2021 16:14

Ego sounds about right. The level of gaslighting from this odious pair is off the scale. Talk about brass neck.

TurquoiseLemur · 31/05/2021 17:45

[quote Rosehip10]@TurquoiseLemur Annulment in the roman catholic church isn't JUST about money, but from the experiences of a relative, believe me, money helps the process hugely....[/quote]
I'm sure you're right.

The CC has always understood money.

Florianus · 31/05/2021 17:53

@DateLoaf

I’m confused why they got married in a Roman Catholic Cathedral of all places?
Westminster Cathedral acts as the Roman Catholic parish church for the Houses of Parliament, Downing Street and the surrounding area.
TurquoiseLemur · 31/05/2021 17:53

@yellowspanner

Because Boris was baptised a Catholic as a baby he will always be a Catholic. His previous 2 marriages were not in Catholic Churches so do not count. As far as Catholic doctrine is concerned he was not married. Hence this marriage in their local Catholic Church. They had a private ceremony. What is wrong with people. Let them enjoy their weekend.
Ah, the "Always a Catholic" argument. It's controlling rubbish. I was baptised as a Catholic aged 3 weeks, obviously not my choice, was brought up as one (ditto), and I left the CC finally and irreversibly aged 21 which WAS my choice. The sexism, the warped view of sexuality, the way gay people are viewed, the sheer hypocrisy and all the mental gymnastics being some of the reasons.

After I left, the scandals about child abuse and its cover-up started emerging. And how the CC in Africa had consistently lied about condoms ("They don't protect you against HIV")- a lie that contributed hugely to the spread of HIV and AIDS and to innumerable deaths. More reasons why I will never have anything to do with the CC again.

I chose to leave. I am an ex-Catholic. I did not get married in a Catholic church, my children are not baptised, and I will not be having a Catholic funeral. And there are many, many people like me.

TurquoiseLemur · 31/05/2021 17:55

@Serpenta

Protestant marriages are recognised by the Catholic church.
They are if BOTH parties are Protestant. If a Catholic marries a Protestant in a Protestant church, this is usually not recognised as valid.

Am not saying it's right. I disagree with it completely. But that's how the Catholic hierarchy view these things.

Florianus · 31/05/2021 17:59

@Iamthewombat

The visiting priest will be the arselicker who baptised her son and who conducted the marriage ceremony. The same man. He is a former Anglican priest who converted to catholicism and is now attached to the diocese of Westminster. It will be him who helped them weasel around the annulment rules, and he who made a special exception for them.

Arselicker is the worst word I have ever used about a priest, but I stand by it.

Perhaps he has an eye on the cardinal’s job, for the future, and is making some powerful friends. I hope that he realises what he has done. All of my Catholic friends are aghast.

As has been pointed out numerous times, annulment does not enter into the matter. In the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church, Johnson has never experienced the sacrament of marriage - getting wed in a register office or in an Anglican church is not a sacramental matter.
Peregrina · 31/05/2021 18:03

The Johnson's may not have broken the letter of the Catholic Church's laws with their marriage, but they have definitely broken the spirit of it.

Peregrina · 31/05/2021 18:08

I would have thought an Anglican marriage was regarded as a sacrament. In the same way that Baptisms in other denominations are accepted as being a sacrament. Not that I know, of course.

Bravesoul · 31/05/2021 18:23

In the Catholic Church there are 7 sacraments in the Anglican Church 2 marriage is not one of them.

Iamthewombat · 31/05/2021 18:42

As has been pointed out numerous times, annulment does not enter into the matter. In the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church, Johnson has never experienced the sacrament of marriage - getting wed in a register office or in an Anglican church is not a sacramental matter

I don’t know where these myths come from, or why they persist.

As other posters better-informed than you have pointed out, repeatedly, the Catholic Church does recognise all legal marriages as valid, irrespective of whether they took place in an Anglican Church, a synagogue, a mosque, a register office or anywhere else. If it was a legal marriage, the Catholic Church recognises it and will not permit a subsequent marriage in a Catholic ceremony without an annulment.

LemonRoses · 31/05/2021 18:44

@Peregrina

The Johnson's may not have broken the letter of the Catholic Church's laws with their marriage, but they have definitely broken the spirit of it.
Yes. Indeed. One vow is, “to accept children lovingly from God and to bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?" I cannot imagine either is intending to spawn many more children.

They will also have vowed, to be faithful in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health, to love and to honour each other all the days of their lives.

I’m cynical, to be honest. It rather makes a mockery of the sacramental nature of the wedding vows.

Iamthewombat · 31/05/2021 19:00

If a Catholic marries a Protestant in a Protestant church, this is usually not recognised as valid.

Don’t kid yourself. It is. Failing to ask the permission of the bishop to do so is a handy foundation for an annulment argument though, as we have seen in this case.

Tealightsandd · 31/05/2021 19:03

@Iamthewombat

If a Catholic marries a Protestant in a Protestant church, this is usually not recognised as valid.

Don’t kid yourself. It is. Failing to ask the permission of the bishop to do so is a handy foundation for an annulment argument though, as we have seen in this case.

If failing to ask permission from the Bishop is grounds for annulment within Catholic law, then surely any issues with this should be directed to the Catholic Church and the Pope? Whether people agree with the rules or not, it seems that it is currently allowed.
FinallyHere · 31/05/2021 19:10

Was it really a Roman Catholic wedding ceremony? If so, are they legally married under English rather than Canon Law?

The Roman Catholic religious service is not one of the type that counts (Civil, Anglican, Quaker and Jewish are the only legal forms )

Perhaps they did the civil part as part of the service. Or p'raps added a Roman Catholic blessing to a civil ceremony

Or maybe they are not legally married.

Interesting wiggle room for future

Just for the record, though, Carrie was not married do was not committing adultery.

who conducted an affair with a married man and had a child out of wedlock whilst living together unmarried

Enough sins there to prevent her from taking Mass so not all that much point attending church weekly.

Iamthewombat · 31/05/2021 19:18

If failing to ask permission from the Bishop is grounds for annulment within Catholic law, then surely any issues with this should be directed to the Catholic Church and the Pope? Whether people agree with the rules or not, it seems that it is currently allowed.

You don’t automatically get an annulment. You don’t turn up at a church with your annulment voucher and have the annulment handed to you. The request has to be assessed and judged, usually by a bishop. The past behaviour of both parties forms part of the evidence base.

What people are objecting to here is why an annulment has (presumably) been handed to this gruesome pair on grounds that are generously described as a technicality. He’s a serial adulterer. She had a child with a man who was married. There are thousands of well-behaved Catholic people who cannot get married in a Catholic ceremony because they, or their partner, are divorced. Why do these two get the get out of jail free card?

newnortherner111 · 31/05/2021 19:43

@LemonRoses I cannot imagine either is intending to spawn many more children. I would not be so sure.

Tealightsandd · 31/05/2021 19:43

Thanks for the explanation, Iamthewombat

This thread is an interesting lesson in Catholic law.

Serpenta · 31/05/2021 19:51

I would be surprised if they didn't have a second child together. I think Carrie would regard a wedding plus baby No.2 as having dotted all the Is and crossed all the Ts

Frazzled2207 · 31/05/2021 19:56

Quite interesting that none of his 5(?) adult children attended.

Serpenta · 31/05/2021 20:01

Oh did they not? I think you could probably infer a fair bit about the current state of relations from that. Even taking into account that numbers would have been limited due to Covid.

I don't blame them.

Peregrina · 31/05/2021 20:08

The Roman Catholic religious service is not one of the type that counts (Civil, Anglican, Quaker and Jewish are the only legal forms )

Sorry, that it not true either. Methodist Ministers can be licensed to conduct weddings, which means that a Registrar need not be present. Certain words common to all legal marriages have to be included.

For Catholic weddings the Registrar does the legal bit in the vestry.

Peregrina · 31/05/2021 20:12

Marriage certificates become a matter of public record, so sooner or later a journalist will be able to get hold of a copy, if they are minded to do so, to see who the Registrar was and who the witnesses were.

Frazzled2207 · 31/05/2021 20:52

@Serpenta

Oh did they not? I think you could probably infer a fair bit about the current state of relations from that. Even taking into account that numbers would have been limited due to Covid.

I don't blame them.

well that is according to the daily fail. Obviously I wasn't there so can't confirm either way! But yeah you would expect that surviving children would be at the top of any priority list given the numbers limitations. That said with five children and perhaps five partners then that's not too far off half the allowed number, so possibly just easier to not invite any!
OhHarry · 31/05/2021 21:44

@Frazzled2207

Quite interesting that none of his 5(?) adult children attended.
Well it must get a bit repetitive and predictable after a while.