Boris and Carrie married?

[DonkeysNotDisney]

Anyone else seen the news?? Another baby on the way, relationship on the rocks, or good old fashioned age gap love?

Agreed.

A selection of Letters about the Johnson wedding, showing that the Simple Admininstrative Process does not seem so simple for ordinary people.

@Peregrina

But I wouldn't mind betting that there are a lot of divorced Catholics out there who suspect that the administrative process was much simpler for Boris and Carrie Johnson than it would have been for Jo and Jane Soap.

The "administrative process" consists of the celebrant contacting the parish where the happy couple were baptised and asking if there is any record of either of them being wed in canonical form (i.e. having a catholic marriage). In the case in point, the answer would have come back "no" - neither have.

It really can't be much simpler, for anyone! It only becomes complicated if one or both have previously been married in a catholic ceremony, then an annulment becomes necessary before they can be married again.

It isn't at all a complex process, but it is obvious that there are catholic priests who do not understand their own church's rules on the matter, and who just ban any divorcee from marriage.

Loving the use of 'casuistry' in one of those letters.

Indeed, spindle, most appropriate for Johnson and his believers.

It really can't be much simpler, for anyone! It only becomes complicated if one or both have previously been married in a catholic ceremony, then an annulment becomes necessary before they can be married again.

This comes from a place of kindness: stop making a show of yourself by pursuing an argument that you have been repeatedly told is incorrect and which is undermined by the evidence you yourself presented.

It isn't at all a complex process, but it is obvious that there are catholic priests who do not understand their own church's rules on the matter, and who just ban any divorcee from marriage.

How come it's not complex if significant numbers don't understand their own rules? This is people who have a vocation to the priesthood and have gone through an extensive period of study. It strongly suggests that it's not simple. Casuistry is a very apt word, and very typical for a man like Boris Johnson.

But still, I do see a fair number of divorced Catholics presenting the Johnson argument to their Priest, saying that my divorced intended spouse had a civil wedding and therefore it must be OK because he/she was never married in your eyes.

I can remember there being discussions around the time that Charles and Diana got divorced, to the effect that had she been a Catholic, she would almost certainly have obtained an annulment, because there was an element of coercion in the marriage, and Charles quite clearly went into the marriage without intending to honour his vows.

I think Camilla's husband was a Catholic, but he wasn't the one getting remarried.

@Peregrina

It isn't at all a complex process, but it is obvious that there are catholic priests who do not understand their own church's rules on the matter, and who just ban any divorcee from marriage.

How come it's not complex if significant numbers don't understand their own rules? This is people who have a vocation to the priesthood and have gone through an extensive period of study. It strongly suggests that it's not simple. Casuistry is a very apt word, and very typical for a man like Boris Johnson.

But still, I do see a fair number of divorced Catholics presenting the Johnson argument to their Priest, saying that my divorced intended spouse had a civil wedding and therefore it must be OK because he/she was never married in your eyes.

It's not so much that they don't understand their own rules but, like Iamthewombat, have got themselves stuck into a popular misconception that the Catholic church will not marry divorcees. As countless Catholic writers have explained, along with the Archdiocese of Westminster, the Diocese of East Anglia, and many other authorities, if there is no previous sacrimental wedding, there is no obstacle to marriage. Neither register offices nor Anglican clergy offer the sacrament of marriage, so in the eyes of the RC church, Johnson has never previously been granted the sacrament of marriage.

I agree that Mr Johnson will be used as an example when someone wishes to marry a divorced person in future.

I still maintain that there are other reasons why a church wedding should have been refused. Lack of respect for the sanctity of human life and his lack of consideration for faith celebrations during the pandemic would be enough for me.

@Peregrina

I can remember there being discussions around the time that Charles and Diana got divorced, to the effect that had she been a Catholic, she would almost certainly have obtained an annulment, because there was an element of coercion in the marriage, and Charles quite clearly went into the marriage without intending to honour his vows.

I think Camilla's husband was a Catholic, but he wasn't the one getting remarried.

Had Diana been a catholic she would not have been able to marry Charles. Heirs to the throne were forbidden to marry Catholics before 2015, when the Succession to the Crown Act came into force.

It is truly wonderful what people "remember" about such matters.

@newnortherner111

I agree that Mr Johnson will be used as an example when someone wishes to marry a divorced person in future.

I still maintain that there are other reasons why a church wedding should have been refused. Lack of respect for the sanctity of human life and his lack of consideration for faith celebrations during the pandemic would be enough for me.

The church has to obey its rules, not make up impediments because it doesn't like a person's politics.

I wish the Johnsons well in their married life. However if he did have his long marriage to Marina annulled I think that is deeply offensive and disrespectful to her and to their children.

It is truly wonderful what people "remember" about such matters.

I am well aware that Catholics weren't allowed to marry an heir to the throne - it didn't stop discussion happening though, which I most clearly remember. Diana would have course have converted.

I also remember people bandying about the idea that he hadn't married Camilla because she was a Catholic, but she never was as far as I am aware.

But in a year or two's time this discussion will probably be forgotten - would you like to tell me then that it's remarkable what was remembered, as though this whole conversation never took place?

In all this, it makes me think that he is now a shining example how to lead your life, walking all over everything and everyone where it suits him 🤔

It's a shame really that Blair went and massively blotted his copy book over Iraq because he would make a better poster boy for Catholicism - committed in his marriage (as far as we know), no children out of wedlock, and a wife who was known to be a practising Catholic - er well, the 'contraceptive devices' that they forgot to take to Balmoral excepted. Plus some decent achievements before Iraq - one of which being one of the architects of the Good Friday Agreement.

Instead they have Johnson to fly the torch for the faith - known liar, known adulterer.

I hardly think Boris "flies the flag" for Catholicism. That is an exaggeration too far.
All he did was get married in the Church he was baptised into.

@Peregrina

It's a shame really that Blair went and massively blotted his copy book over Iraq because he would make a better poster boy for Catholicism - committed in his marriage (as far as we know), no children out of wedlock, and a wife who was known to be a practising Catholic - er well, the 'contraceptive devices' that they forgot to take to Balmoral excepted. Plus some decent achievements before Iraq - one of which being one of the architects of the Good Friday Agreement.

Instead they have Johnson to fly the torch for the faith - known liar, known adulterer.

Johnson is no "poster boy" for Catholicism. He is not, to all intents and purposes, even a Roman Catholic since he was confirmed into the Church of England when a teenager. It's a nice "angels dancing on a pin" argument, though, since Catholic doctrine states that it is impossible to leave the church, however much someone might try.

The only poster boy the Catholic Church recognises is Christ.

@Peregrina

It is truly wonderful what people "remember" about such matters.

I am well aware that Catholics weren't allowed to marry an heir to the throne - it didn't stop discussion happening though, which I most clearly remember. Diana would have course have converted.

I also remember people bandying about the idea that he hadn't married Camilla because she was a Catholic, but she never was as far as I am aware.

But in a year or two's time this discussion will probably be forgotten - would you like to tell me then that it's remarkable what was remembered, as though this whole conversation never took place?

If Diana had "converted", Charles would not have been marrying a catholic, so the "discussion" seems somewhat pointless.

If Diana had "converted", Charles would not have been marrying a catholic, so the "discussion" seems somewhat pointless.

Not that this ever stopped people!

So how does the Catholic church stand on him allegedly paying for Petronella Wyatt's abortion? The utter rank hypocrisy of them all makes me sick to the guts. But then go to Westminster Cathedral and see the brass plague of all the Popes and the Borgias are on there. He and they have no shame.

thecritic.co.uk/boriss-baby-problem/

Canon Law - I learn something new every day. The modern equivalent of indulgences.

www.clsgbi.org/history/matrimonial-decisions/the-development-of-matrimonial-decisions/

[quote vera99]So how does the Catholic church stand on him allegedly paying for Petronella Wyatt's abortion? The utter rank hypocrisy of them all makes me sick to the guts. But then go to Westminster Cathedral and see the brass plague of all the Popes and the Borgias are on there. He and they have no shame.

thecritic.co.uk/boriss-baby-problem/[/quote]
It makes no difference at all to his right to marry a Catholic woman in their home parish.
The Catholic church preaches forgiveness and a lack of judgement.
The Catholic church is staunchly anti-abortion, but not staunchly anti-people who choose that path.

The Catholic Church has been soft on Nazism, Fascism, and child abuse - but let's not go there. But hey forgive and forget .....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany