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Protesters stop immigration van in Glasgow

150 replies

GreenChips · 13/05/2021 19:57

So pleased to see how the community came together for their neighbours in my home city today.

Police release men from immigration van blocking Glasgow street www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-57100259

Felt quite emotional watching the men being released from the van to all the cheers.

To do that today of all days in a Muslim community was just awful.

OP posts:
UsedUpUsername · 14/05/2021 20:18

Sure, sure. You never hear of English people moving to Spain or France, living there for 10 years and not speaking a word of the language

Ok but no one here would care much if they got deported for not getting a legal visa (presumably they’ll need moving forward)

UsedUpUsername · 14/05/2021 20:21

Yep. That's it. Border force timed the detention of two Sikhs to coincide with Eid deliberately piss off some Muslims. That makes a ton of sense

They were Sikhs?

😂😂😂 my sides!

Two brown men being deported — must be Muslim!!!111!!!!

And they say we’re the racist ones 😂😂😂

SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo · 14/05/2021 20:22

UsedUpUsername

You’d hope that if these English people had been living there for 10 years, then were removed to a detention centre without notice or were given just 14 days to leave the country, that people would care.

(How exactly do you even plan a return in 14 days - 14 days to sort out funds, housing, kids’ schools...)

However, this is mumsnet, so I’m sure someone will be along to prove me wrong any minute now 😂

SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo · 14/05/2021 20:27

Oh also just for lols the detention centre is actually a prison and you’re not allowed any legal representation.

You’d hope people would care.

UsedUpUsername · 14/05/2021 20:39

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo

UsedUpUsername

You’d hope that if these English people had been living there for 10 years, then were removed to a detention centre without notice or were given just 14 days to leave the country, that people would care.

(How exactly do you even plan a return in 14 days - 14 days to sort out funds, housing, kids’ schools...)

However, this is mumsnet, so I’m sure someone will be along to prove me wrong any minute now 😂

Visa holders know the terms of their stay.

If you are illegal, you can’t relax on this, nor should you. The hammer could fall any day.

I have more understanding than most here, I was based once in a foreign country and was shipping boxes of stuff home for a friend that had been deported and given only a couple days to get their affairs in order.

Most of their stuff ended up in the dumpster 🤷‍♀️

You seem to not understand that their life doesn’t usually involve these closing costs, they are basically pulling a government-enforced runner. You leave with your money, important paperwork and maybe some valuables and that’s pretty much it.

Landlords, utility providers, and lenders are left holding the bag unless there’s a guarantor they can harass, which for an illegal immigrant there’s sure to not be.

SunflowersAndLavender · 14/05/2021 20:40

They were Sikhs?

😂😂😂 my sides!

Two brown men being deported — must be Muslim!!!111!!!!

And they say we’re the racist ones 😂😂😂

That's not the funniest thing. The funniest thing as that once they were released from the van the jubilant, largely white, woke crowd whipped them off and deposited them in the local mosque. Presumably so they they could celebrate Eid, a religious holiday that has fuck all to do with them.

But they were brown, so it was an easy mistake to make right?

I can just imagine one of the guys looking at the other and saying 'Smile and nod. Just smile and nod.'

SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo · 14/05/2021 20:47

You seem to not understand that their life doesn’t usually involve these closing costs, they are basically pulling a government-enforced runner.

I’m not sure what you think I don’t understand when that’s exactly the point. If closing costs are the problem, why are the government enforcing a quick departure? Why are they determined to remove people from the country in days, without giving them even the chance to settle their affairs? (And leaving landlords etc out of pocket in the process?) Why deny them the legal representation to which they are lawfully allowed?

ChloeCrocodile · 14/05/2021 21:09

All laws, including immigration laws, should be rigorously upheld without exception.

I completely, fundamentally, disagree with this. Some laws are unjust and immoral. In those cases citizens can, and should, to peacefully resist. Any law which detains a person without access to legal representation falls into the “unjust” category.

It is always worth remembering the number of laws, throughout the world as well as UK history, which were (and in many cases are) abhorrent.

And all of that, of course, assumes that the Home Office were acting within the law, which they frequently do not.

UsedUpUsername · 14/05/2021 21:13

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo

You seem to not understand that their life doesn’t usually involve these closing costs, they are basically pulling a government-enforced runner.

I’m not sure what you think I don’t understand when that’s exactly the point. If closing costs are the problem, why are the government enforcing a quick departure? Why are they determined to remove people from the country in days, without giving them even the chance to settle their affairs? (And leaving landlords etc out of pocket in the process?) Why deny them the legal representation to which they are lawfully allowed?

I can’t speak to how costs are recouped but my experiences are in a country that doesn’t dole out free legal representation to those caught on the wrong (or no) visa. UK is really soft imho
saraclara · 14/05/2021 21:58

@SunflowersAndLavender

They were Sikhs?

😂😂😂 my sides!

Two brown men being deported — must be Muslim!!!111!!!!

And they say we’re the racist ones 😂😂😂

That's not the funniest thing. The funniest thing as that once they were released from the van the jubilant, largely white, woke crowd whipped them off and deposited them in the local mosque. Presumably so they they could celebrate Eid, a religious holiday that has fuck all to do with them.

But they were brown, so it was an easy mistake to make right?

I can just imagine one of the guys looking at the other and saying 'Smile and nod. Just smile and nod.'

The community knew these guys. They would have known they were Sikh, as they were big in voluntary work. But the community is multicultural, so many will be Muslim. Interviews with some of them made it clear that they put aside their Eid celebrating in order to support their Sikh neighbours
saraclara · 14/05/2021 22:04

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo

UsedUpUsername

You’d hope that if these English people had been living there for 10 years, then were removed to a detention centre without notice or were given just 14 days to leave the country, that people would care.

(How exactly do you even plan a return in 14 days - 14 days to sort out funds, housing, kids’ schools...)

However, this is mumsnet, so I’m sure someone will be along to prove me wrong any minute now 😂

They can't even do that. They're taken directly from the detention centre to the airport.

If they're lucky they might get to phone friends (from the dumb phone that they're provided with on arrival) and how they will do some of this for them.

And of course they generally spend that 14 days focusing on their legal case/appeal/ application for bail in the hope that the removal notice will be withdrawn, rather than planning to leave the country.

saraclara · 14/05/2021 22:04

How= hope

SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo · 14/05/2021 22:05

I can’t speak to how costs are recouped but my experiences are in a country that doesn’t dole out free legal representation to those caught on the wrong (or no) visa. UK is really soft imho

But the problem here is that you can’t assume the home office are acting correctly/legally. So it’s not “doleing out free legal aid” to people with no/wrong visa, it’s allowing access to legal aid to confirm if people actually have a right to be here. The home office have deported and attempted to deport people who have a legal right to live in the UK. I don’t think anyone can defend that.

I did a post on it a page or so ago...

SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo · 14/05/2021 22:12

Exactly saraclara it’s inhumane and inexcusable. I wonder if those on this thread who are happy for these two men to be detained would be happy for British citizens to be detained and imprisoned without legal representation just because they “probably” did something illegal?

SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo · 14/05/2021 22:14

[quote SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo]There are immigration laws in every country. You may not like them, but they exist, and when they are broken there is enforcement.

The problem being, though, that the home office is not behaving legally or following policy. They are illegally removing people from the country who have every right to live here, by not allowing those people access to legal representation. Is that behaviour that you can support? Or does it not matter if it’s “just” immigrants who aren’t allowed to be protected under law?

The hostile environment was presented as a way to identify people who had no right to live in the UK. But from early on, there were signs that an increasing number of people who did have that right were being caught up in it. A 2014 report by the charity Legal Action Group, which identified a number of former Commonwealth citizens who had been stripped of rights, was dismissed by the Home Office. In 2016, after a series of media reports about EU citizens wrongly told that they had no right to live in the UK – Hawkins, the Dutch IT specialist who had lived here for 24 years, was one of them – had their cases swiftly resolved.

From the article here
www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/13/cruel-paranoid-failing-priti-patel-inside-the-home-office

Also see
eachother.org.uk/home-office-broke-law-in-treatment-of-highly-skilled-migrants-court-rules/

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55065061

And
Bella Sankey, the director of Detention Action, said: “We understand from the government’s lawyers that at least six people expelled on yesterday’s flight to Vietnam were taken in direct breach of the Home Office’s own removal policy intended to ensure proper access to legal advice. If correct, this is a breach of the rule of law, may have put lives at risk and must be urgently reversed. The home secretary has serious questions to answer – in court if necessary.”
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/22/home-office-breaches-own-rules-deporting-vietnamese-migrants[/quote]
@UsedUpUsername
My previous post re why this form of detention is very much not OK.

IloveJudgeJudy · 14/05/2021 22:20

@CatherineMorland my thoughts exactly. I do know of what I speak as I lived in a different country for a few years and spoke the language fluently. DS then lived in the same country on the Erasmus scheme and learned the language, not having known it previously. (He had to provide his own interpreter at any legal meetings such as getting a permit to stay, etc).

CatherineMorland · 14/05/2021 22:31

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo

What are you on about? Brits in France or Spain are irrelevant; they are there legally by the agreement of their host country.

They are not basing their right to stay on the fact they have assimilated into the local community (whilst unable to communicate in the local language after 10 years). Can you not see the irony?

SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo · 14/05/2021 22:32

Well good for you JudgeJudy
I lived in another country for 10 years, was/am incredibly fluent, passed top level exams in that language, actually teach it now to other people. Yet if I’d been locked in a van for hours and threatened with deportation, I think I might struggle to sound at my most coherent in that language, and request an interpreter.

Dh has been in this country for about 10 years and similarly, had he been through an experience like that might need support in articulating a statement. You up for deporting him too?

SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo · 14/05/2021 22:33

CatherineMoreland Where’s your information that these men weren’t here legally?

SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo · 14/05/2021 22:38

www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/brexit-reality-thousands-of-britons-start-their-illegal-stay-in-the-eu-from-tomorrow-april-1/

Brits in France or Spain are irrelevant; they are there legally by the agreement of their host country.

🤷🏻‍♀️

SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo · 14/05/2021 22:41

A large group returning to the UK are the “under radars” – those living in Spain without being legally registered, sometimes for years or even decades. This group draws little sympathy from “resident” Brits who feel they have done the right thing and paid their taxes.

www.thelocal.es/20210329/opinion-neither-spain-nor-the-eu-are-to-blame-for-some-britons-having-to-leave/

But British people would never!

(And to be clear, I would hope that any British people, whether in Spain legally or not, would be given access to proper legal representation.)

ChloeCrocodile · 14/05/2021 23:02

whilst unable to communicate in the local language after 10 years

How do you know these men cannot communicate in the local language? Even a person competent in the language may reasonably decide that when speaking to the press or in court having an expert interpreter would mean a better chance that the proper meaning of their words being understood by the listener. Having conversational language is not at all the same as being confident in all situations, and it is perfectly possible to communicate pretty well using conversational language skills.

UsedUpUsername · 15/05/2021 07:57

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo

I can’t speak to how costs are recouped but my experiences are in a country that doesn’t dole out free legal representation to those caught on the wrong (or no) visa. UK is really soft imho

But the problem here is that you can’t assume the home office are acting correctly/legally. So it’s not “doleing out free legal aid” to people with no/wrong visa, it’s allowing access to legal aid to confirm if people actually have a right to be here. The home office have deported and attempted to deport people who have a legal right to live in the UK. I don’t think anyone can defend that.

I did a post on it a page or so ago...

Surely the government has that information on hand and can make that determination, since they are also the ones handing out visas.

I guess it seems soft to me because where I’ve been, if you are caught on the wrong visa, you get swiftly deported. No legal advice.

But this is probably about them trying to make an asylum case, isn’t it?

SunflowersAndLavender · 15/05/2021 08:28

SomeKindOfFloppy

The difference with Brits in EU countries is that they were legally entitled to stay long term or forever, with no need for formal residency or a work visa at the time they went there. The goalposts were been moved on them due to Brexit. They didn't go to France or Spain in the full knowledge that they had no right to live and work long term.

Even if these Indian chaps arrived completely legally (student visas for example) they at some point made the conscious decision to outstay whatever visas they had. They have not had the goalposts moved on them, like Brits in the EU have.

There have been many Brits living 'under the radar' in France and Spain full time without completing tax returns or paying any tax, without registering their UK cars and driving them all year round on UK insurance etc., as indeed there have been EU citizens who have been doing exactly the same in the UK.

Brits were not were not obliged to formally apply for residency if they wanted to stay for more than 183 days in a year, nor to fully register themselves into the French healthcare system with private mutuelle top up insurance, but they should have completed a tax return if they stayed over 183 days in the year, which of course many did habitually did. But but with no-one monitoring their travel movements within the EU it was very easy to stay much longer.

There is a double taxation treaty between France and the UK so even if they had completed a tax return they would not have been taxed twice on a UK based income such as a pension, or investments or remote working anyway.

The slight difference is that many of the Brits in Spain and France who have gone 'under the radar' are often retirees, entirely self funded and not looking for work, either on the black or by entering into a job contract obtained by giving false information about their right to work. That's not to say that there haven't been British people working in the EU and avoiding tax - of course there have. But that was their crime - avoiding tax. Not working illegally or being an illegal immigrant.

As for the link to that article, about British people 'starting their illegal stay' it's a bit misleading.

UK citizens wanting to live in the EU have up until 30th June 2021 to apply for residency, providing they can show that they started the process of settling (eg having a tenancy agreement in place) before the end of the transition period.

So no, many of them will not have 'started their illegal stay' from 1st April. They are still within their rights to be there . Even once 1st July comes and goes, they still won't be illegal because they have until October to complete the residency process.

No-one who has a house there, either owned or rented, can be shown to be an illegal over-stayer until after 1st July, if they have not submitted an application for residency by then. So the illegal part of their stay will begin then.

smersh84 · 15/05/2021 14:33

this really annoyed me
its rare enough the government actually seems to do get off its arse about immigration and of course when they actually do something this happens.

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