My adult daughter told me last night she is non binary . No idea what this means

[2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney]

Looking it up and based on what she says it seems she identifies as agender sometimes and a woman at other. No desire to transgender.

Main thing was she wanted us to call her by a name she has been calling herself outside the house for several years. Which happens to be very much a girls name although she “feels” it isn’t. We don’t want to call her this name it is alien to us. . This name is not a derivative of her given name which we could call her.
A bit of background
In her mid teans she told us she was gay . We said “fine , no problem” I even sought out a gay teenage group for her. She left after a while and then preceded to have several boyfriends , fancy others and stood up a couple of proposed girlfriend first dates ( went off with other mates on one and didn’t turn up for the other - cold feet on the way) I really don’t think judging by her actions she is neither gay or bisexual.as she maintained.

In the past we just haven’t really commented , continued to say we don’t mind what she is and we really don’t. We have many gay and straight friends , it really isn’t an issue for us.

She is ASD and I mention this because she does seem emotionally immature despite being an adult in her mid twenties. Also I have read probably here on mumsnet people with asd are more likely to question their gender.

This all seems to boil down to wanting us to call her by another girls name.

And that brings things to a head.

I have looked up agender and non binary and none of the descriptions seem to apply to her .

Any advice welcome

@2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney
I don't mean to pry, but why does the photoshopping bother you? SM doesn't have to be a truthful reflection of you? Maybe she wants to keep it a little distanced from the real her?
It's lovely that home is her safe place.

I'm fairly certain using filters has poor results on mental health.
There have been plenty of studies about the harmful effects of photoshopping.

Use the chosen name. Your child is not your property, especially as an adult.
Listen. Learn. Love unconditionally.

@Beamur

Because if she puts up an adjusted photo she gets hundreds of likes which she craves but if it’s of her normal face not so . But the likes aren’t for get they are for an altered persona . It us well known that these are very damaging to MH

OP,
Maybe trying explaining to her what you said in your last post. Say you are nervous about using that name as she uses that name for a altered persona not for a real person. Having to change her online appearance so radically to gain approval and wanting to be named for that person who doesn’t actually exist does sound unnerving. So is she using the name in real life or has it really only existing online for several years?

@2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney
Do you think your DD is being made to feel insecure about her looks because of the difference in reaction she gets?
That's a tough one to unpick as women are very much seen through the prism of what is considered attractive. Does she have good self esteem in other ways?
Personally I think it's such an important thing to foster in our daughters that their value as a person is so much more than beauty, but we are up against it!

Nonbinary agender means you don’t identify with either the male or female gender. Keep in mind that male and female genders are defined by very strict and limiting regressive stereotypes. So the response here would be congratulations you are a normal human being because hardly anyone fits the stereotype for girl (or boy).

So, too it is very common for a gender nonconforming girl to realise, she doesn’t identify with the female gender because it’s all stereotypes that don’t apply to her. Especially if they are also lesbian/bisexual and nuerodiverse.

Simply being a lesbian that loves video games and grew up playing with dinosaurs and Lego’s is enough to make you think, hey I am nonbinary because I played with “boy” toys and also am attracted to girls, like a “boy” would be.

The danger is in such a girl then thinking she is trans based on the above...which are just social constructs! Stereotypes! And then thinking she has to conform her body to match the boy stereotypes. Luckily, your DD has picked agender and nonbinary.

So she’s navigated that mess successfully. About changing her name, I think you should use the name she wants. It’s a little ask and by refusing you are implying that she has got this whole gender mess wrong, when actually she’s done a good job translating the gender identity of a normal, gender nonconforming person.

On the altered persona and name online, I’d actually talk with her about why. My youngest does this too but it is purely for privacy reasons. She’s grown up watching people get cancelled, career lost at aged 25 for something they posted or a picture snapped of them when they were 17 or younger. She doesn’t want this to happen to her so she posts under an alias and uses filters so that her identity is less out there.

My son changed his name in his early 20s.

I fully embraced (and actually prefer) his new name. Other family members can’t get used to it and go by the old.

He generally thinks it’s not worth fighting over, and answers to either.

Use the name she asked you to use. Chances are she will change her mind again anyway given her history of changing her mind.

I'm in a similar situation OP. My sister came out as a trans woman a couple of years ago. She has ASD. Similar age to your daughter.

Since she came out we have adopted her new name and pronouns and generally been supportive.

However, she hasn't bought any girls clothes, she hasn't altered her appearance in any way, she hasn't changed her name legally, she hasn't come out to everyone yet, she hasn't changed her social media accounts, she hasn't changed her passport, bank accounts etc. I don't think she behaves any differently, and comes across very masculine.

We have offered help with makeup, grooming, clothes etc. All refused.

So basically what it boils down to is her wanting us to use a different name. I'm extremely confused about it all.

I think the fact they are ASD makes a huge difference to how they perceive gender. After all gender is a social and nuanced thing- which are things my sister struggles with.

The only way we can deal with what's going on is to just go with it and be supportive. If anyone has any suggestions let me know!

I rarely use my dd's name. She's got a million pet names. I don't really understand what the problem is with calling her whatever she is comfortable with.

If she's non-binary should you be using them, their, etc.?

What are you afraid will happen if you and you husband call her by her new name @2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney?

@GoingThruTheMotions

But gender ideology isn't benign like being gay or goth or a new romantic. It can lead to plastic surgery. To hormones that are harmful to the body. When exploring your identity invites harm (promiscuous sex, drugs, eating disorders) becomes harmful parents need to step in.

Or were you cheering on the pro ana movement of the 90s too?

I'm not sure we're on the same page if you're counting promiscuous sex and all drugs as inherently harmful

I also don't believe plastic surgery and hormones are inherently harmful in adults. I mean, they're not without their risks, but loads of people think the risks of plastic surgery are worth it and most of them are gender conforming women! Obviously in children there's a different argument to be had about consent, but this is a separate issue.

Anyone is free to change their name and that should be respected. Use the name. It might not be what you picked out for your baby but it matters to her.

I know two women who have changed their name as a response to some mental health difficulties, reflection and therapy. In both cases they seem happier with their new names, in one case it was from a common shortening to her birth certificate name but in the other case it's a totally different, but quite ordinary, female name.
I do think that you should try to do this for her, even though I know it will be difficult.

Of course I was referencing Calpol.

And we teach our children to be risk adverse. It's a fact that lots of sex with different partners puts you at risk of STDs like Chlamydia, HPV, herpes and aids. None of which can be effectively 100% avoided by using condoms.
And most drugs have harmful effects on people mind and body, nevermind getting a criminal record if caught.
And it doesn't matter what you 'believe'. Hormones not designed for your sex have a devastating effect on the human body used long term. Plastic surgery in this area is highly risky.
But sure, if you wanna be the 'cool' parent, whatever.