My adult daughter told me last night she is non binary . No idea what this means

[2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney]

Looking it up and based on what she says it seems she identifies as agender sometimes and a woman at other. No desire to transgender.

Main thing was she wanted us to call her by a name she has been calling herself outside the house for several years. Which happens to be very much a girls name although she “feels” it isn’t. We don’t want to call her this name it is alien to us. . This name is not a derivative of her given name which we could call her.
A bit of background
In her mid teans she told us she was gay . We said “fine , no problem” I even sought out a gay teenage group for her. She left after a while and then preceded to have several boyfriends , fancy others and stood up a couple of proposed girlfriend first dates ( went off with other mates on one and didn’t turn up for the other - cold feet on the way) I really don’t think judging by her actions she is neither gay or bisexual.as she maintained.

In the past we just haven’t really commented , continued to say we don’t mind what she is and we really don’t. We have many gay and straight friends , it really isn’t an issue for us.

She is ASD and I mention this because she does seem emotionally immature despite being an adult in her mid twenties. Also I have read probably here on mumsnet people with asd are more likely to question their gender.

This all seems to boil down to wanting us to call her by another girls name.

And that brings things to a head.

I have looked up agender and non binary and none of the descriptions seem to apply to her .

Any advice welcome

I would accept the new name and use it as much as you can remember to, but also don't make it into a big deal. The more you make it a line in the sand, the more likely it is that she will tighten her grip on it, and the less likely she is to quietly drop it in a few years if she changes her mind. Plus she will probably read on some website that having parents who won't use a new name means they are transphobic bigots who hate her (that's obviously not the case, but plenty of trans campaigners come out with stuff like that).

Try and accept the name, keep dialogue open, especially about any other mental health issues you might be worried about, but don't dig your heels in.

Good luck with it OP

@Craftycorvid
I would worry that someone one offering neuro-diversity informed counselling or therapy might offered by a “vested interest”

I didn't actually say she shouldn't change the name. I said it's not a simple change like is being suggested to the op. I'm also aware that people are applying nt parenting to special needs parenting.
I'm a special needs parent and it is another world.
And it's very clear from the op there may be more going on here than just a surface level name change.

Is she due back at work soon? My DD has a. Processing disorder and she obsessed about things when she wasn't working especially about Instagram and you tube stuff and her focus has shifted since coming off furlough, fwiw I'm not saying your DDs sexuality or her non binary is a phase or whatever but it might have been her focus when she hadn't anything else to think about.

OP I can totally understand why this is difficult for you. I'd feel the same.

A few of my DDs friends are going through a similar thing at the moment (but they are significantly younger). In all cases the desire for name change seems to be part of a much broader issue and changing it doesn't resolve the problem (in one case there have been multiple name changes, several sets of new, invented pronouns). And I reckon it must be hard for their parents to keep conceding to these new requests while seeing that it's not really addressing the root of the problem.

However, in your shoes, I would probably still do what she's asking because otherwise you risk turning the name thing into a much bigger issue i.e. she may decide that the root of everything is your refusal to acknowledge her new name etc and that will just become a further distraction and shut down communication between you, your DH and her. It does sound though as if she needs some professional support.

I hope things get easier.

Vested interest? Not sure what the concern is there. Sorry if I’m being dim.

She is gradually doing more hours: hopefully more very soon which will be good for her in so many ways. And be able to start her hobby again which is currently limited or non existent due to COVID rules.

These could all be positive steps

It’s just a load of bullshit. Don’t entertain it; she’ll get bored soon enough when she’s not getting any attention.

She sounds likes she’s confused and is in need of an identity, and has been for a while. Fwiw, I think the current trend to put ourselves in a box - be it transgender, non-binary, bisexual, pansexual, polyamorous does more harm than good some of the time. Like many, she sounds like a confused young adult who has become lost in trying to identify herself. Add ASD and it becomes even more challenging. I’d probably get her some counselling in order for her to gain some clarity, or at least live in peace with the confusion.

@Craftycorvid

Vested interest- so many of the sites I see run by LBGT groups appear to me to be in the “you must validate my feelings” instead of considering for example the ASD in initial considerations

Obviously you should be calling her by the name she has requested you to, as that's the respectful thing to do.

However you all need to be aware that it's going to be hard and that she mustn't think you are being disrespectful if the name you are used to calling her by is the one you most often default to.

She has to understand that's going to happen and to equally be respectful of that fact.

Ah I see! Well, no ethical qualified therapist would ‘push’ a political agenda. Someone with understanding of ASD would understand that gender identity concerns may well be a component of that and would endeavour to support someone to better understand who they experience themselves to be and if all of the identity issues are about gender.

I would call her by the name she has chosen. It would be disrespectful not to and could end up starting a pointless argument.

I've looked up what 'non-binary' means in the past.

"Non-binary (also spelled nonbinary) or genderqueer is an umbrella term for gender identities that are neither male nor female‍—identities that are outside the gender binary.[1][2] " (wikipedia)

Gender is the word which means whether or not you conform to sex-based stereotypes and is quite a regressive 1950s notion; for teenager, girls these days the 'feminine' gender means long perfect hair, crop tops, bronzer, fake lashes and a perfect body. Kardashian-style.

I'm not surprised that girls are rejecting this and resorting to the non-binary label. But it is such a shame that gender non-conforming teen girls can't accept that they aren't 'gender-conforming sheep' and want to behave and dress differently. Why the label and name change? I find that very sad, but it's a fashionable and contagious trend. Perhaps it's like being a goth 30 years ago. We rebelled against the norm (Or so we thought). Or like Annie Lennox (androgenous but has never called herself non-binary).

Come to think of it. Because I don't have a 'gender identity', as I deplore gender stereotypes, perhaps that makes me non-binary too? Do you wear make-up and heels every day @2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney? Because if not, you're non-binary too!

Accept her new name. My brother changed his name many years ago for a different reason and my mother refused to call him by his chosen name. This contributed to a rift that lasted until her death.

I don’t generally wear make up and never wear heels! I did point out to my daughter who at the time was trying to make out that everyone in the 1989s were transphobic and homophobic, that sexes were not defined as they are today at least in culture and the media as “barbie girl” and “macho man “ . When I grew up I was very much a tomboy and was “allowed “ to be as a girl. Several of my friends grew up to be gay although most if the time I was too young to know about sexuality just that they seemed a bit different. Didn’t matter to me they were my friends!

She grew up with no defined gender toys ( but gravitated to the girls ones) She loved to dress up and still does .

It sounds as if the name change is just the latest in a long line of slightly challenging behaviour from your DD.
But why is this the deal-breaker for you?
Tbh nothing you have said about her sounds that bad and she sounds like you enjoy living with her but find her life outside of the home harder to understand.
Do you need to understand it? Having an external persona - as something which is another facet of you, but maybe where you can try things out more safely may not be a universal experience but I doubt it's that unusual.
My DD (possibly ASD but definitely some traits - observed by a professional) has had a character which is her, but not quite her since she was very young. Not an imaginary friend but a character who she writes about, draws, etc and she is always just slightly older and cooler than DD
I think she finds this a safer way to explore certain things about herself.

@RebeccaOfSunnyHellFarm

And names are important, whatever people say about so and so who she'd theirs like a snake, no problems. Why do you think Mumsnet constantly has name threads on the go? If names were meant to be changed all the time, parents wouldn't agonize over getting the right one! And yes, the odd person in a family can and will change their name, but if we were all flippant about names it'd be much more difficult. Remembering one niece's name change is fine. Would it still be fine if uncle, aunty, sister, brother and granny name changed. Whether the name is changed or not it IS a big deal. Especially parents who chose it, sung her to sleep with it, have countless school reports with it on.

Society is in a bad way when we are expected to give in to every little individual demand for individuality. Yes, we all want to be fabulous YouTubers with names like Midnight, Satin and Celeste, but the reality is most of us have to face working in retail with a name tag that says 'Joan'.
*I love Joan because of Joan of Arc btw, so no offense to Joan's. You rock.

However, once you give that name, it belongs to the child. It's his or hers and theirs to control, not the parents.

Name changes happen on a smaller scale all the time, just think of all the nicknames acquired by children as they grow.

This isn't really any different. OP's DD wants to use another name and I think OP should do so.

OP has said her DD feels home is her safe soace. Well, if OP and her husband keep refusing to use the name, especially one that their DD has been using for some time, they could nsk harming that feeling of safe space for their DD. Their DD may not feel supported.

I'd go with using the name, as it's her choice.

@Beamur

but find her life outside of the home harder to understand.
Do you need to understand it

I don’t have a problem with her calling herself something else outside the home. I do worry about the photoshopping and challenge her on it. The art make up doesn’t bother me either.

As a parent with two autistic children I'd also go with using the name. But I would be explicit about how I felt about it. Not in a mean but explanatory way, as in 'I understand you want to be called this name and I'll do that because I love you, but I'm worried that you're doing it because you don't feel that you being you is good enough'. And then discuss the difference you see between her at home and her outside and why some people with ASD feel the need to mask outside of the home. That you love her the way you are, that you want your house to always be comfortable for her and that you will always be okay with her changing her mind. Basically, you can't force someone to be comfortable with themselves, only thing you can do is showing you're comfortable with who they are and create an environment in which they can experiment with that feeling too. She may not be binary, but her confusion about identity is definitely a part of her autism and very difficult to manage for anybody.

*love her the way she is
*may not be nonbinary

Is it a filter she is using on her SM photographs? I don't think that's unusual nowadays is it I've seen pictures of 30 40 year olds that look nothing like themselves

But it doesn't matter to her what things were like in the 80s or whatever. That's like my Nanna telling me gay people didn't exist in the 1940s. The point being they did, but didn't "identify" as gay because society said no. Likewise gender nonconforming people have always existed but they didn't identify as such like they do now.

Teenagers have always sought their identity (and it will count early 20s s well especially in autistic people). In the 80s it was music tribes and Teenagers became goths, new romantics etc. In the 90s people we had indie kids and dance culture, teenagers explored their sexuality and can out as bisexual or whatever. Now it's all about gender identity amongst other things.

And actually this teenage stage of exploring who they are and trying different identities or aligning to certain tribes is a very important developmental stage - for their self identity, learning who they are and the sort of adult they will be.

It may seem immature and attention seeking to adults. And I suppose it is immature BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL YOUNG. But it's not attention seeking, it's Identity seeking and it's important. And as adults we shouldn't minimise it or laugh or criticise because if there is on thing GUARANTEED to make a teenager distance themselves from you it's this, and the teenage years are when you want them to keep the lines of communication open.

Just smile, nod and say 'That's nice dear' and don't get overly involved or give it too much credence. Most likely, it will be something else she fixates on in six months time, so no point stressing about this.

Do you not have any pet names that you call her anyway? Just stick to those? Our DDs know they're in trouble when I call them by their actual Christian names - otherwise they have always happily answered to a string of nonsense pet names x

But gender ideology isn't benign like being gay or goth or a new romantic.
It can lead to plastic surgery. To hormones that are harmful to the body.
When exploring your identity invites harm (promiscuous sex, drugs, eating disorders) becomes harmful parents need to step in.

Or were you cheering on the pro ana movement of the 90s too?