My adult daughter told me last night she is non binary . No idea what this means

[2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney]

Looking it up and based on what she says it seems she identifies as agender sometimes and a woman at other. No desire to transgender.

Main thing was she wanted us to call her by a name she has been calling herself outside the house for several years. Which happens to be very much a girls name although she “feels” it isn’t. We don’t want to call her this name it is alien to us. . This name is not a derivative of her given name which we could call her.
A bit of background
In her mid teans she told us she was gay . We said “fine , no problem” I even sought out a gay teenage group for her. She left after a while and then preceded to have several boyfriends , fancy others and stood up a couple of proposed girlfriend first dates ( went off with other mates on one and didn’t turn up for the other - cold feet on the way) I really don’t think judging by her actions she is neither gay or bisexual.as she maintained.

In the past we just haven’t really commented , continued to say we don’t mind what she is and we really don’t. We have many gay and straight friends , it really isn’t an issue for us.

She is ASD and I mention this because she does seem emotionally immature despite being an adult in her mid twenties. Also I have read probably here on mumsnet people with asd are more likely to question their gender.

This all seems to boil down to wanting us to call her by another girls name.

And that brings things to a head.

I have looked up agender and non binary and none of the descriptions seem to apply to her .

Any advice welcome

Sounds tricky I would be a bit hmm about calling her a different name I would probably go with her rather than against her. I do think your concern is valid though she is your child and you are worried about her mental health with the altering of her appearance online keep an eye on her but outwardly let her get on with it you want her to be open with you so you know she is ok.

I wouldn't worry too much about the name. Names are really no-biggy. If you are struggling, just call her honey, darling, or whatever nick-name you have in front of her.

however, I would worry that she's getting caught up in the gender-ideology cult - part of which is relying on other people to do things for your own validation. I hope my DC never insist on controlling other people's speech/beliefs in the way gender ideologists do.

And as for announcing she's 'agender' - it tends to be a way for not very bright people with issues to feel special. I'd suggest trying to deal with those issues, whatever they are.

I totally get how you feel and why. You do need to respect her wishes but I can understand how difficult this must be for you.
Parenting is bloody hard sometimes 💐

I personally don't get the name being the line in the sand - but as it is I'd avoid names altogther and use some term of endearment instead.

I'd have seperate conversations about the other presentation stuff and your concerns.

There are no instruction manuals for that one, is there.

For those saying 'just do as your DD says', well, ok. And what next.

I completely understand your difficulty OP. And I have no wise word for you except that I get it. Every single website/information source says just accept your child, do what they tell you to do, listen to their needs. But the mental health of the parents is never considered. Never, ever, ever. We are just supposed to put up and shut up.

I am watching glow up with my 23 year old and it's all , they them she her my DD looks at me like I'm a bloody dinosaur when I question it. It's all too self indulgent imo

@Helmetbymidnight
I agree with you about using agender to feel special and we should deal with those issues . They stem from her ASD I think and difficulty fitting in with stereotypes.

But when I asked her what did non binary meant day to day for us . She replied with using her name choice . That was it! Even though it’s another weirder girls name . Her thoughts about non bibpnary are mixed up with the name.

As an aside , I googled non binary as she suggested. On the very first site chosen by google on the first page in the how to help bit was “calling them by their chosen name” I strongly suspect she came across the same page in her exploration and has mixed up in her mind the name change and gender ideology .

She sounds like she's really struggling and calling her by this new name won't fix that. I'd be doing all I can to try and help resolve whatever underlying issues there are. I don't think I could call her by another name as that would feel like enabling the problem, rather than helping to address it. I might be able to try and avoid using her actual name, and just not call by any name, at least to her face.

@oldwhyno

I don't think I could call her by another name as that would feel like enabling the problem, rather than helping to address it

Thank you for putting this into words so succinctly something I couldn’t do .

You what - the most important thing a child (even grown up ones) want from their parents is to be accepted, liked, loved for who they are. It's not fucking hard.

Sure dealing with a child's actual mental distress is awful, and yes it can affect your own mental health. But them asking you to call them by a different name, nah makes fuck all difference.

QWERTY- I think if the OP has said her daughter was 12 or 14 or even 16 the answers would have been different, but she is 25 it’s is really the age when you have to accept that this might be the adult version of your child. There are masses of outlets for mothers mental health, this website being one of them. There is however woefully inadequate mental health support for young people. Also really how much should we really have to consider our parents mental health when we make choices as young adults, that is an unnecessary burden for young people. This daughter is not a addict, is not behaving unsafely why should her mothers mental health be unable to cope with the request for a name change.

I don't think I could call her by another name as that would feel like enabling the problem, rather than helping to address it

That makes perfect sense.

Not calling her by any name might be a solution It sounds difficult I grew up in the 80s where is was all boy George etc etc so this isn't new they just think it is and it's escalated

OP, it almost seems from the drama, dress up side of this that you almost see this name as representative of your daughter’s alter ego and then she comes home and takes off this persona, makeup and puts on comfy clothes and becomes herself. But your daughter doesn’t see it like that. I think she has tried on this new persona for a couple of years and feels comfortable that that is who she is and is asking you to accept it. It doesn’t sound to me that she has massive issues that need dealing with. She is soul searching about who she is but if she is happy and sociable with friends, work and relationships then surely a name change is not the end of the world. If all those areas are lacking then maybe focus on helping her out with those rather than focusing on this one detail.

Also enabling the problem what do you perceive as the ‘problem’?

I completely understand your hesitation op and think if you'd posted on special needs instead of chat, you'd get far more understanding and knowledgeable answers, as people here will be comparing a nt adult with your dad and that is obviously unhelpful.
Personally, I would have a discussion about why the original name was so important to me. Talk about seeing her for the first time and it just fitting, the first time she wrote it in crayon with little backwards letters, how you feel pride and joy when you hear it.
I'd then have an open-minded discussion about compromising. Could you use the old name for intimate, loving use like a pet name and the new one elsewhere? I'd be explaining very firmly that whilst the new name may be associated with memories going forward, your old memories will be permanently linked to the original name.
No one is allowed to rewrite the past. You can journey into a new chapter together, but what's done is done.
Remember that everyone is entitled to feelings, not just our children.

I just don’t understand why out of everything that is going on with your DD you are putting so much emphasis on the name she wishes to use. People change their name occasionally, my own sister who is a heterosexual woman in her fifties ( so nothing to do with her sexuality or being a “new thing”) hated her perfectly normal name growing up and used a nickname instead, guess what, we all managed to adapt and call her by her chosen name. My parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles all managed. My parents did not see it as a huge rejection, they preferred her original name but totally respected her desire to use a different name. My sister did eventually change her name legally.

Use the name. It’s that simple.

And names are important, whatever people say about so and so who she'd theirs like a snake, no problems.
Why do you think Mumsnet constantly has name threads on the go? If names were meant to be changed all the time, parents wouldn't agonize over getting the right one!
And yes, the odd person in a family can and will change their name, but if we were all flippant about names it'd be much more difficult. Remembering one niece's name change is fine. Would it still be fine if uncle, aunty, sister, brother and granny name changed.
Whether the name is changed or not it IS a big deal. Especially parents who chose it, sung her to sleep with it, have countless school reports with it on.

Society is in a bad way when we are expected to give in to every little individual demand for individuality. Yes, we all want to be fabulous YouTubers with names like Midnight, Satin and Celeste, but the reality is most of us have to face working in retail with a name tag that says 'Joan'.
*I love Joan because of Joan of Arc btw, so no offense to Joan's. You rock.

I'd really recommend posting in special needs op. Other ASD parents will be able to give you practical and sound advice.
I find everyone in special needs has been lovely when I have posted.

Rebecca, you say parents agonise over the choice of baby names, they do, but OPs daughter has obviously gone through the same reflection. Her agonizing about her name has gone on for even longer because she has been using her chosen name for several years outside of the home. How long is is enough time for the DD to be allowed to make her own choice about her name. It doesn’t seem like a overnight change.

I have no words of wisdom OP ... however, I understand where you’re coming from. I think her ASD could also be projecting thoughts and feelings that actually may not be coming from her as such. My ASD daughter could easily be manipulated into thinking a certain way as she takes things as gospel and then could change her way of thinking to reflect this. I’m not sure I’m making much sense but in my head I know what I mean!

I think if you knew, or thought that this was definitely how she feels/who she is, I think you’d have no problem calling her a different name. But I’m picking up that this may not be the case here, I think your dd sounds confused and not sure where she fits in/who she is, and I think ASD plays a big part in that. I think you need to get her some professional help/counselling to work things through for herself.

Does she work? She sounds like she has a lot of time on her hands?

ASD and gender confusion/gender fluidity do go together. Would she access some neuro-diversity informed counselling or therapy do you think? You seem concerned she may be making herself vulnerable with others.

She currently has a lot of time on her hands , she has been furloughed for much of the year and now on part furlough. We have all had to shield for most of year since I am ECV. Now I am double vaccinated life is opening up more .