Is it too soon to ditch Keir Starter? Is it too late to consider David Milli and?

[CliffordTheBigBlueDog]

Maybe these election results are not all Keir Starmers fault but, even though I was delighted when he was elected leader, I'm beginning to have doubts about his electability.
I saw David Milliband on the TV the other night and thought of what might have been.
I'm not sure if he's even in the Labour party any more.
Andy Burnham is the bookies favourite to be the next leader and maybe he'd be an improvement but I'm not sure.
It's all very depressing.

I’m glad the Tories did so well. Labour are just for champagne socialists, virtue signalling snowflakes and whingers. These results show that the tides are turning and hopefully the right people will continue to remain in power.

AFAIK David Miliband is on a colossal salary with some ‘worthy’ organisation in New York. Why would he come back?

I blame Labour entirely for the shower we have now. They allowed the left to choose Ed, who anyone non-blinkered could see that he would never have sufficiently wide appeal.

If Labour had chosen David instead I’m sure we wouldn’t have had Cameron or the Brexit referendum, nor Boris and his ilk.

And Labour still haven’t distanced themselves from Momentum and the like. I often think that a good many of them would prefer to be in permanent opposition rather than compromise their ‘ideological purity’. Not to mention that it’s so much easier being in opposition, just criticising and slagging the other lot off, and never having to put your money where your mouth is.

What tides are turning? The Conservatives have been in power for over a decade!

Yes it's too soon.

I think the front bench needs looking at.
I'd like to see and hear more from Yvette Cooper.

I don't really understand why anyone thinks David Miliband would have been so great. Also don't get why it was fine for David to run against Ed but not vice versa.

I also think Ed was in principle appealing but the media just really really hated him. The bacon sandwich thing was just ridiculous

The problem is the effective marketing by the right wing press that Labour are just for the woke politics, snowflakes etc. Only about identity politics etc......
Labour would ensure a fairer society but that means fairer to all - including people that brexit voters don't want to see being helped Eg. Immigrants and people living off benefits. So brexit voters won't switch back to Labour easily now.
I honestly think people will just keep voting Tory now they've taken the plunge once. Yes life will probably be shitty for them, but they think life was shitty under Labour too and at least this way they get to stick it to the woke snowflakes. Also the tories have made it clear if you live in a tory area you will get more government money!
I agree Labour's identity politics is losing voters on the other end of the spectrum as well. Left leaning women are not voting for them either as they understand the threat of identity politics to their rights. They need to keep those votes too.
The last thing that needs to happen is a lurch to the left though. But how does Labour ever appeal to people who want no immigration and voted brexit. I just don't see how it can!

Agree re the media. Starmer has been invisible in the press whereas Corbyn was never off the front page. There was always some controversy going on around him whether it be his dress sense at the cenotaph or a bbc programme making him look like Lenin with his russian style cap. The tories and the murdoch press were wary of Starmer initially hence the lack of coverage. I think he needs more time to sort the party out but I don't think he'll win a GE. I'm hoping he'll be a John Smith or Kinnock figure who addresses the real problems in the party and makes them more electable then hopefully a more charismatic figure comes along.
I don't think he can beat Johnson. Johnson's downfall may well be himself and the complacency that comes with having a huge majority. He just can't help himself and neither can the rest of his cabinet.
Also the shit show that is brexit and inevitable austerity post covid will scupper any chance of levelling up and the red wall will soon be disillusioned....

Yes it’s too soon the party needs to look stable he is working on this

Maybe another 18 months then a leader that is more appealing to voters

I don’t think DM wants to return

Tories are on a crest of a wave at the moment. Johnson is a one off, unique, a force of nature. No one else like him in the party, who would replace him if and when he comes cropper, which he undoubtedly will.

Ed didn't beat David. Ed and the trades unions beat David. That was screwed up

Labour are a policy free zone.

It's why I thought Corbyn could have been so good for the party, because I thought he would return it to have ideas, ideals and principles, devising the policies that it stood for and giving us a choice.

Instead we get all this wet stuff about 'we don't know what state it'll be in, so we'll reveal our policies later when we do'.

Nomway to support a party that does that, instead of treating us like grown ups who are perfectly capable of realising that plans might have to change if the situation is different to that which you expected. But has a good idea what sort of policies you stand for, and therefore will understand necessary adaptations.

But so much of government is open these days, there's really no need for those antics at all.

Sort out the policies, and the following will come.

And I do mean policies you believe in and will inspire people to support. Not fickle sampling-based policies with no core and unifying world picture.

@Onetoomuch

Tories are on a crest of a wave at the moment. Johnson is a one off, unique, a force of nature. No one else like him in the party, who would replace him if and when he comes cropper, which he undoubtedly will.

It's hard to imagine someone else at the moment,

But just pause and remember:

Since Thatcher, the Tories have had 4 Prime Ministers all of whom won General Elections (albeit one in a coalition first, and another with a vanishingly small majority). Since Blair, Labour has had one who resigned after losing the next GE.

Labour would ensure a fairer society but that means fairer to all - including people that brexit voters don't want to see being helped Eg. Immigrants and people living off benefits. So brexit voters won't switch back to Labour easily now.
There's one big mistake. Why should anyone believe that Labour will ensure a fairer society and how will they do that small thing?

Lovely words about fairer society.

Now, what are the key elements of what they actually mean by 'fairer' and what are the policies that will deliver those elements?

I like Andy Burnham but he’s doing a fantastic job as Greater Manchester’s mayor so don’t see him running for Labour leader any time soon.

David Miliband is long gone too. Not sure who the answer is really. I like Angela Raynor, she reminds me of a crazy aunty or something with her doc martens and new rock boots. Loved her shouting Tory scum the other week.

Someone described Boris as a character in another thread but he has nothing on Angela.

Since Blair, Labour has had one who resigned after losing the next GE.

Yes, Blair well and truly shut the door behind him.

A decade of Tory scare mongering about immigration and slashes to welfare mean people are terrified to lose their jobs and terrified Labour will give them to these mythical migrants.

Loved her shouting Tory scum the other week.

That kind of immaturity is the last thing Labour needs.

How about they focus on pushing positive and constructive policies. Rather than division and pitting groups against each other (Burnham) or primary school level name calling (Raynor).

@HoneysuckIejasmine

If Labour get rid of Starmer then I'll truly be homeless. At the moment I hold my nose against the intolerant Corbyn faction of the party and vote for the party anyway. But if they go full Momentum again, I'm gone.

A centrist party is sorely needed.

The momentum lot are a major issue for Starmer. It's a shame he seems too scared to stand up to them. Perhaps he's outnumbered?

@Tealightsandd

Loved her shouting Tory scum the other week.

That kind of immaturity is the last thing Labour needs.

How about they focus on pushing positive and constructive policies. Rather than division and pitting groups against each other (Burnham) or primary school level name calling (Raynor).

Exactly.

Heaven help us if what is classed as effective opposition is shouting Tory scum.

Now would be a good time to just oust momentum and the Twitterati wing. We're a few years out from a General Election and people like me are reaching peak disgust with the Conservatives and desperately looking for an alternative. The trouble with Change UK and the like was that they came too late.

Heaven help us if what is classed as effective opposition is shouting Tory scum

Agree - it might give some transient amusement, but it doesn't tell us anything about what their own agenda is (other than the bandying off insults)

The momentum lot are a major issue for Starmer. It's a shame he seems too scared to stand up to them. Perhaps he's outnumbered?

I don't know if he is outnumbered, but scared definitely and that is not a winnable characteristic in a leader, sadly the evidence of his cowardice is writ large in his inability to defend or support Rosie Duffield and call out those who so horrendously abused her. Who would want someone so weak running the country?

It's time Labour realised that anime characters on Twitter do not speak for or represent vast swathes of voters and hence do not translate into votes. I suspect the majority of those spouting their bile on Twitter either never vote or are ineligible to vote in UK elections.

@CrumpetsForAll

A decade of Tory scare mongering about immigration and slashes to welfare mean people are terrified to lose their jobs and terrified Labour will give them to these mythical migrants.

This attitude is a good example of the kind of patronising, dismissive, and quite frankly downright offensive attitudes amongst too many in the Labour Party, since Blair. Failing to acknowledge the valid concerns over mass immigration and it's impact on those who have to compete with new arrivals for essentials - jobs, housing, public facilities. It is an issue, and it's lazy and insulting to dismiss and deny as racism or xenophobia. Of course increased supply allows employers to depress wages. Of course extra demand enables landlords to charge higher rents. Of course an increased population puts pressure on local services - schools, hospitals, GP, etc.

People impacted only want what everyone else has - a reasonable standard of living in the 21st century (rather than a race to the bottom and a reversal in quality of life).

Why not, instead of attacking or slurring them, acknowledge their issues - and offer solutions. Positive constructive ones.

Integration initiatives. Bring communities together. Improved facilities. Build more social housing. Employment regulations. Better training opportunities including work your way up apprenticeships.

And yes, some immigration control. It shouldn't be a no go subject. People should be able to have an adult conversation about it and acknowledge both the positives and the negatives.

Andy Burnham is a media star and has future potential but not sure he’ll leave his mayor job before the end of his term.

Loved David M but that ship sailed
I think Ed milliband was the wrong leader at the wrong time but still has potential. He’s been very impressive in parliament recently.

I don’t mind KS but unfortunately the media are not warming to him which is the biggest issue