Is it too soon to ditch Keir Starter? Is it too late to consider David Milli and?

[CliffordTheBigBlueDog]

Maybe these election results are not all Keir Starmers fault but, even though I was delighted when he was elected leader, I'm beginning to have doubts about his electability.
I saw David Milliband on the TV the other night and thought of what might have been.
I'm not sure if he's even in the Labour party any more.
Andy Burnham is the bookies favourite to be the next leader and maybe he'd be an improvement but I'm not sure.
It's all very depressing.

A major barrier for Starmer is the media don't seem to like him.

@MrsPeacockInTheLibrary

Honestly, Labour is done for reasons long-embedded before events discussed here.

It cannot win without Scotland. It also cannot win without attracting voters over from the Tories. It also needs to address the so-called 'red wall.'

However, and sadly, it needs to win over itself. I have been in and out of Labour politics for a decade or so and the factionalism and infighting is more entrenched than ever. This has been addressed by the Conservatives, who also have no real rivals on their side of the spectrum. Whereas the left vote (however you want to define that) is split amongst several parties and movements.

Accordingly, Labour have a nearly impossible task - and I haven't even mentioned traditional voters or policies or anything else about an election. They will be out of power almost indefinitely with these factors in play.

The Conservatives are atop the mountain, whilst their opponents squabble on the foothills.

So true.

Andy Burnham would be disastrous for social cohesion. He's a man who bases his campaign on identity and stoking division. Comes across as quite fake too (not Blair levels but then that would take some doing).

@MrsPeacockInTheLibrary

Honestly, Labour is done for reasons long-embedded before events discussed here.

It cannot win without Scotland. It also cannot win without attracting voters over from the Tories. It also needs to address the so-called 'red wall.'

However, and sadly, it needs to win over itself. I have been in and out of Labour politics for a decade or so and the factionalism and infighting is more entrenched than ever. This has been addressed by the Conservatives, who also have no real rivals on their side of the spectrum. Whereas the left vote (however you want to define that) is split amongst several parties and movements.

Accordingly, Labour have a nearly impossible task - and I haven't even mentioned traditional voters or policies or anything else about an election. They will be out of power almost indefinitely with these factors in play.

The Conservatives are atop the mountain, whilst their opponents squabble on the foothills.

This is one of the long term legacies of Blair.

They need someone less intent on identities and stoking division (that includes regional) and more focused on what people actually want - instead of what they think the people should want.

What do the people want?

Labour's problem is that there is no real working class, doing hard graft down the mines any more.
By and large, we all lead a good life, with fair pay for a safe days work of 8 hours.

Plumbers, electricians, carpenters etc earn a good wage, particularly if self employed - our windows cleaner has a second home in Spain.

"The young" are Labour's main supporters, but they don't vote in huge numbers.

The drubbing of Labour is bad news for the whole country. We need an effective opposition to ensure that the government is held accountable for its actions. We can see this lack of accountability already. Free holidays, free nannies, free decorating from Tory donors. What has been promised in return? Boris Johnston has broken the ministerial code so many times and no one cares that he appears to have no ethics.
It's thoroughly depressing.

@MrsFin

They need someone less intent on identities and stoking division (that includes regional) and more focused on what people actually want - instead of what they think the people should want.

What do the people want?

Labour's problem is that there is no real working class, doing hard graft down the mines any more.
By and large, we all lead a good life, with fair pay for a safe days work of 8 hours.

Plumbers, electricians, carpenters etc earn a good wage, particularly if self employed - our windows cleaner has a second home in Spain.

"The young" are Labour's main supporters, but they don't vote in huge numbers.

That assumption is part of the problem. The obsession with youth is another.

Many many people - including lots of middle aged and older - aren't leading a good life with fair pay for a safe days work. Very far from it. Even worse, their misery, their grind, and even their very existence is ignored, dismissed, and denied.

Of course, separately, there's those too disabled or ill to work. Unfortunately no one cares about them.

We need an effective opposition to ensure that the government is held accountable for its actions.

Yes this. Definitely. A strong opposition is so important. Whichever party is in power.

It is an experiment in trying to tell people what to think and no space for differing views. Intolerance in action from people claiming tolerance. Scary. It will only change if even fewer people vote for them I’d assume, although I wouldn’t bank on that.
^this
My ghast was flabbered today when they wheeled out former Hartlepool Labour MP (Lord) Peter Mandelsson. Although I know of course that they've always put toffs in as MPs in "working class" areas, it came home to me how shitty that is.

Burnham has erm interesting associates.

Burnham comes across as rather Blair like. Very disingenuous. Fake. All about the look, the style, but no actual substance. His pitch is pitting groups against each other, rather than actually doing anything positive or constructive.

Do tell about Burnham’s interesting associates!

I am wondering if the Biden administration being in the White House will have any impact on the success of the Labour Party. He has a lot of major changes planned, significantly the re-balancing of economic policy away from the trickle-down economics so beloved of the Tory party. It's far to early to tell yet and it might end up being nothing more than talk but if he has any success over there Labour could ride on the coat tails of such sweeping changes. The UK public might (finally) look for change too.

I thought I'd end up voting Labour or green for county council election. But the Labour leaflets were focussed on national issues - 4 out of 5 points were not the responsibility of county councils. And the green candidate didn't even seem to have information online.

These seem like beginner mistakes, and I assume it's the local parties that need to sort themselves out for that, rather than it simply being a leadership problem.

I think being labour leader is a poisoned chalice sadly.
Agree it started going wrong when Ed screwed over David.
I really don’t know what the answer is but it is astounding that tories are making gains with the early handling of the pandemic, sky high death rate, and all the fibbing/sleaze stuff coming out.
Really says something about our opposition that they can’t even do well in these circumstances.

I am no fan of Boris, I think we should wait and see the stats of the death rates from 2018/2019/2020/2021/2022/2023 for each country before we judge.

It's not the leader that is the problem though.

No matter how shit the tories are people still vote for them, for what they know ....the propaganda against the Labour Party started years ago still persists so the 'can't vote labour' continues 🙄

So more pot holes and poor public services for us here. More of the same with rich getting richer. The poor even appear to vote for that

If Labour get rid of Starmer then I'll truly be homeless. At the moment I hold my nose against the intolerant Corbyn faction of the party and vote for the party anyway. But if they go full Momentum again, I'm gone.

A centrist party is sorely needed.

The labour councillors local to me seem to spend their time "holding the tories to account" on Facebook. They are focused on what the tories are doing wrong rather than having any decent suggestions of their own.
I'm not into politics really but I'd be getting out into schools and colleges covid permitting and asking the next generation of voters what is important to them.

Much too late for Milliband. Im so annoyed they went down the whole Ed Milliband, Corbyn route. Happier with Starmer but he's had a rough deal with events and i dont think anyone could have shone or done much at all under the circumstance.

Yes he’d be good but he’s probably not keen

@Belindabelle

David Miliband now lives and works in NYC as head of International Rescue so I can’t see him coming back to the shit show that is the current Labour Party.

I read that and thought, does that mean he’s in charge of the Thunderbirds?

I quite agree with a PP, I completely hold Ed Milliband responsible for the dreadful state of British politics.

@HoneysuckIejasmine

If Labour get rid of Starmer then I'll truly be homeless. At the moment I hold my nose against the intolerant Corbyn faction of the party and vote for the party anyway. But if they go full Momentum again, I'm gone.

A centrist party is sorely needed.

I agree. But it needs to have broad appeal, if that isn't an oxymoron.

If they move back to the left it’s political wasteland for years

It's too late soon yes. Give stammer a chance