Solicitors put DH name first.

[Tullyjune]

We are buying a house. I’ve done all the conveyancing quotes in my name, I’m the only one that’s communicated with them from my personal email. I paid the deposit with my bank card.

Yet the paperwork has all come through with DHs name first. It’s not even alphabetical.

I know it’s not the end of the world and most people wouldn’t give it a second thought. But it’s pissed me off.

Just getting it off my chest.

It’s not my fault. - I haven’t said that, I have actually said I have continued this system for ease but acknowledge that going forward that might not be best practice.
It’s not intentional ( pretty poor excuse from a solicitor ). no it’s likely not, each individual of the firm doesn’t have the capacity or isn’t even necessarily typing pro forma letters, especially in conveyancing.
My CMS was written in 1950 and I can’t change it. law is still a little behind and archaic. I’m not going to deny that. That doesn’t mean I agree.

It’s about how we got here and not about how we can improve going forward. try this is how we got here and this is what we need to change to go forward and you’ll be closer to my actual response.

When dh and I bought our first house together, we wanted completely new windows. Married but not changed names. Sat through 2 hour long discussion in our living room about their 'amazing' windows. Discussed both our jobs and salaries but refused to sign up on the day. A week later, same salesman phones. I answer the phone. He asks to speak to dh but doesn't say who HE is so I pass the phone over to dh. Stunned when I hear dh's end of the conversation. Why could he not talk to me? I phoned back, complained to line manager and they didn't get our business. These small acts of everyday sexism DO need challenging. People just need to take the time to think.

I’m glad that you will consider changing your systems and your attitudes / values.

I am a great advocate for the legal profession in general. If you search my posting history you will see that I often strongly advise women to get early legal advice ( on relationship breakdown, inheritance or property issues).

It’s important that women feel they will get the same standard of service that men do. It’s not like you charge them less.

Comments like those on thread affect public confidence in the profession. In your shoes I’d be keen to say to prospective clients that we will NEVER treat you like this. We value your business and have the highest standards of professional integrity. We will always act in your best interests, regardless of your sex, age or ethnicity.

I do this with clients, someone’s name has to come first and if I always put the mans first I know where to look first when I’m looking for their file, this is especially true where they have different surnames.

So it isn’t the computer system then?
And computers don’t decide things on their own. They have to be programmed to do things a certain way.

I don’t understand why filing something with the man’s name first is easier.

I think you should just ask him to change it.
But if a man said what you said "Despite me being the one who instructed and paid them." ...I think women would be up in arms saying just because the husband paid for it doesn't mean he has more rights than his wife.

FWIW I0NA as I have said upthread I don’t work in conveyancing any longer, but have been able to provide some insight from a time when I did (and from peers who still work there, so I’m aware how CMS etc work).

I work largely for business’ now and address people by first name. I don’t actually have any married couples at the moment so it’s not an issue for me day to day. But again, as I have said, if I did I would consider deviating from previous practice if it’s appropriate to do so (in some instances I anticipate clients might refer to themselves as Mr and Mrs and in such an instance they wouldn’t mind) I won’t have a blanket POV.

I don’t think in sharing my insight and acknowledging the need for change I have damned the profession. The profession is archaic and that doesn’t sit well with me. That’s not to say it’s incapable of change or shouldn’t be challenged. I have joined other discussions re attitude to women in the workplace etc - again I’ve shared my experiences which haven’t always been positive but that doesn’t mean I support those views.

I am also a consumer and wouldn’t tolerate being treated as a lesser person because of my gender, or DH’s earning capacity. But I’ll admit that personally, I don’t mind post being address to Mr and Mrs DinoHat. Again, that doesn’t mean I don’t acknowledge others don’t like that and so shouldn’t receive that treatment.

I do enjoy a sensible discussion and debate. Which is why i post.

I have also spent a great deal of time speaking to non owning adult occupiers (usually SAHM’s) about their rights to property etc and how they can retain or gain some where it’s appropriate to do so.

When we needed new windows, DH and I agreed I would do all the fact finding, gets quotes etc. then we would make the joint decision about who to buy from.

I rang several companies, explained I was looking for quotes at the moment. Most were fine and came during the day to discuss and quote. One company refused to come out unless DH was here, I explained we weren't looking to buy at the moment just want quotes. Still said they would only talk to 2 people, I asked if that was the case if I was a single woman, he actually said they would be cautious, after a little toing and froing he said something like, it will be a different matter when you're asking your DH for his money to pay for them, won't it?

I was appalled, and called head office to complain, and told them never ever to contact me again under any circumstances. They did a few weeks after to get feedback, I told them exactly what I thought if them, and the fact I had been ignored when told them not to contact me.

If its the computers fault and it always defaults to the man. why are there many women on here saying "only I talked to the company. It was my email address, my credit card payment and yet letters where addressed to my DH. How? he has had no contact with the firm, how does the software know his name or details unless someone has intentionally put them in, which when the main client dealings have been with the female how fucking rude is it to bypass her completely when it comes to correspondence.

@reesewithoutaspoon I too have wondered how a computer system can input its own data. If the husband hasn’t been in contact or instructed he shouldn’t be contacted at all. That would be a clear data breach.

Oh for goodness sake! What a childish thing to be annoyed about! 🙄🤦🏼‍♀️

@GeorgiaGirl52

Because it is Mr. and Mrs. NOT Mrs. and Mr.

THIS

@emilyfrost

You’re being silly. It doesn’t matter.

Complaining about something like this puts women in a bad light; you’re doing us a disservice by embarrassing us over small non-issues.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I'm a legal secretary. All the software is formulated to put the man's name first as default. When creating a client, Man is always client 1. We actually have to put it in as Mr and Mrs John Smith, client 2 Mrs Jane Smith. Really pisses me off. But you get pulled up by the internal records department for straying from the script. Addresses are written as Mrs and Mrs John Smith too. I used to put Mr J and Mrs J Smith but that often got changed.

If the solicitor is on first names terms they often put the "active" client first in the salutations (so the person instructing the work, the OP in her case) but that's almost an exception.

I also prefer to refer to female clients of unknown marriage status as Ms but that's come back and bit me in the ass by both clients and colleagues, so I'm starting to give up.

I would consider deviating from previous practice if it’s appropriate to do so (in some instances I anticipate clients might refer to themselves as Mr and Mrs and in such an instance they wouldn’t mind)

I don’t mind being Mr and Mrs. I very much mind when I fill my form in as buyer one and someone decided that I can’t possibly be buyer one as I have a vagina and puts me on the system in second place because first place is reserved for penis havers.

And as for all the women saying it’s a silly thing to get worried about, you are happy that you will be deferred to second place behind the men in your life are you? You are fine with the assumption that he is more important than you?

@DinoHat

I do this with clients, someone’s name has to come first and if I always put the mans first I know where to look first when I’m looking for their file, this is especially true where they have different surnames. Sometimes I have in excess of 120 cases, if I don’t have a system it makes filing and finding file (especially whilst I have a client on the phone) a little more complicated and frankly anything that makes me more efficient means I can get on with the actual work.

I don't understand this logic. Yes, someones name has to come first but why not go alphabetically, even when there are different surnames involved? That seems a logical filing system.

CervixHaver why can't it be Mrs and Mr?
Why is it ridiculous to fight everyday sexism?

Architects too. No matter which email we correspond from (always cc'ing the other) they reply solely to DH. Dear Mr Begins, to his email only.

As a PP said, opposite to the school where DH is deliberately the main contact due to having a more flexible job. They still ring me first. Even when he applied for a keyworker place for DC during lockdown using his keyworker status, they called me to discuss it.

It's such a poor indictment of society.

I've just remembered that when I had this issue with a mortgage, the (female) solicitor was most annoyed on my behalf. She's had my business ever since.

I have discussed this at length through the thread; I’m not going to readdress if for your benefit. RTFF

I also prefer to refer to female clients of unknown marriage status as Ms but that's come back and bit me in the ass by both clients and colleagues, so I'm starting to give up.

I hate that women have to divulge so much about their martial status when it’s completely unnecessary to do so and would prefer Mr and Ms across the board. But then a pp didn’t like that, so there is no fixed rule that suits everyone.

Or Ms and Mr before anyone jumps on me, to be used jointly and individually.

@HeavyHeidi

the system can still be changed to 'order alphabetically' and not 'Mr goes first'. I am just evaluating several matter management and contract management systems and they all are happy to customize whatever you want, even if there was a pre-set 'Mr first' default option.

I just don't understand why so many people don't seem to give a shit. If I knew that option A (man always first) will piss off a number of my clients and option B (main client/alphabetical) would not, I would want to at least check if option A is possible.

Most CRMS (at least he ones I've used in the last 15 years), require settings. Those settings are based on the lcient's requirements.

The setting can default to putting Mr first (yes probably as it's usually programmed by men, as stated by PP above), but it needs to be requested to be changed. If no-one notices or doesn't care, then it won't change. It is nothing to go back to whom you are paying for this programme to request this setting to be changed.

But it's probably easier to allow women to seethe, because what are they going to do about it really?

@DinoHat

The point hasn't got anything to with my actual relationship - it's that all correspondence has come from me, the mortgage has me named first (it always has!) and I am the sole earner so it makes sense to be first named. I thought that was obvious from the context but clearly not. I've always been the higher earner btw.

I appreciate what you're saying about software, doesn't make it less annoying.

As an aside, funny though how even though DH is first named contact on school stuff they always ring me first. And if DH happens to be in the car when I take it for a service or whatever it's him that is addressed - it's MY car, I was driving it, DH can't drive!

One thing that I find works for most of my clients ( now hold onto your hats here, this is going to be very technical ) is asking them.

Like this -

1. Ask them to fill in the form which has client 1 and client 2 ( is more than one ) or your staff do it.

1. Ask them for their title / designation ( Reverend , Rabbi, Lady, Wing Commander etc )

1. Ask them how they wish to be addressed eg Wing Commander Smith, Jane or Janie.

1. Ask them how they wish to deal with correspondence.

1. Write it on the clients files / type into CMS. If you don’t use computers inscribe it with a slate pencil onto your slate. Treat it with as much rigour as your time sheet and billing details.

1. Use a database that can be searched by name, case number or perhaps key words. This will also help make you GDPR compliant. And you won’t have to file Wing Commander Jane Smith’s file under the name of her 6 year old son because he has a penis and she doesn’t.

1. Hope they use the same courtesy for you eg don’t address you as Janey Baby / Doll / sweetheart if you introduced yourself as Professor Jones.

1. Hope they don’t settle your fee note by sending the money to your granny or the cat and dog home because that’s what their computer says / it’s their policy / you are being petty to object/ they want to use a proper lawyer who is male.

See it’s not hard. It’s how we take instructions.