Solicitors put DH name first.

[Tullyjune]

We are buying a house. I’ve done all the conveyancing quotes in my name, I’m the only one that’s communicated with them from my personal email. I paid the deposit with my bank card.

Yet the paperwork has all come through with DHs name first. It’s not even alphabetical.

I know it’s not the end of the world and most people wouldn’t give it a second thought. But it’s pissed me off.

Just getting it off my chest.

I pay the council tax, am registered online for payments, set up the direct debit and it's my email. Dear Mr Dh name 😬🤬
I wrote back, got an apology, names corrected.

Oh and years ago when we were setting up a new joint account, Dh was not working (we were relocating with my job) My new job details were given to the bank as my salary and relocation costs were being paid in etc and guess who was primary account holder? Which meant I could not collect our bank cards, Dh had to do it! And when we were burgled before the move, I was unable to order new cards, Dh had to do it! At the time I was using my maiden name, it came before his in the alphabet AND I'm older. I was gobsmacked!

A year ago I took out house insurance with the Halifax. I put my name first and dh's second. I was pleasantly surprised to find the paperwork came through in the format Mrs myname and Mr hisname. All good.

Fast forward to the pandemic, and they wrote a "touchy feely" letter about the pandemic, and how they were there to help and how their staff were wfh, yada, yada. Except they wrote to my husband alone. I could understand it if they wrote separately to me but they didn't.

I wrote a formal complaint, from me and me alone. When their paperwork acknowledging the complaint arrived it arrived addressed to Mr and Mrs. So they addressed their response to someone who hadn't even complained.

Needless to say I complained about that as well. Eventually they upheld my complaint. Casual, everyday sexism.

@butterpuffed

Except this is Chat and not AIBU and the OP specifically said she wanted to get this off her chest. I can’t see where she asked for opinions.

Exact same sexism happened to me. I was listed as lead buyer/did all the contact and DH name was listed first. Same with council tax and anything

I've seen several comments saying that "Mrs and Mr xxx" just sounds wrong. It only sounds wrong because you haven't grown up hearing it all the time. Because you've grown up hearing/reading a form of etiquette of address that was developed when women did have fewer rights than men (c.f. the not being allowed to open a bank account on their own until the 1970s). If you had grown up hearing "Mrs and Mr xxx" you would probably think it sounded wrong the other way round.

Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't mean it is the right or only way to do something... there are plenty of other elements of etiquette/forms of address/letter writing etc that have been dropped over the years.

I had this once when I was buying a car. It was me paying and it was a car for me. The salesmen kept defaulting to my other half. Made even worse by that I know far more about cars than my other half. To his credit, my other half said "I don't know why you're talking to me when it's my other half that's the one buying".

The second one was when I hired a female professional to assess my child. We were paying with my money. I'd sourced the woman and contacted her and dealt with filling in all of the forms. She then found out my other half was a "professional" (didn't occur to her that I was too - she assumed I was 'just' a SAHM) so she stopped engaging with me, didn't respond to my emails but spoke to my other half. I need a similar professional for my other child and, needless to say, we won't be using her services this time round.

[quote Faultymain5]@butterpuffed

Except this is Chat and not AIBU and the OP specifically said she wanted to get this off her chest. I can’t see where she asked for opinions.[/quote]
If op didn’t want a discussion she should have written a blog and not posted in a chat forum.

They did this to us too, he wouldn't have been able to tell you which firm we were using because I was doing everything with them, so I was raging when it happened - it's so fucking backward and sexist

I would tell them the names should be alphabetical. It’s not being silly at all - it would be silly to make a big deal out of it but you can get them to change it with out doing that. Lots of small things add up to a sexist world, where women come second.

I think I’ll mention it next time I talk to them. They seem like nice enough people so it was probably unconsciously done but I feel it needs highlighting.

It will be entirely unconscious because technically It's not wrong.

I work for a solicitor and type it this way round because I can't be expected to know who "wears the trousers" (ironically) in every household. I do put Mr X Smith & Mrs Y Smith as opposed to Mr & Mrs X Smith and all letters to single women are Ms. Baby steps...

I'm sure the younger legal secretaries will be along to smash the patriarchy soon enough.

and I will put two spaces after a full stop until the day I die

@StCharlotte

I think I’ll mention it next time I talk to them. They seem like nice enough people so it was probably unconsciously done but I feel it needs highlighting.

It will be entirely unconscious because technically It's not wrong.

I work for a solicitor and type it this way round because I can't be expected to know who "wears the trousers" (ironically) in every household. I do put Mr X Smith & Mrs Y Smith as opposed to Mr & Mrs X Smith and all letters to single women are Ms. Baby steps...

I'm sure the younger legal secretaries will be along to smash the patriarchy soon enough.

and I will put two spaces after a full stop until the day I die

Do you do this even when Mr Smith has had zero contact with your company as Mrs Smith has done everything??

Wasn't there a case a while back where a financial company that did this (put the mans name before the womans on accounts that the woman held) actually cost the account holder a considerable amount in tax relief or something as HMRC only recognise the first named person for some purposes ?

So not only does it really matter. But it really matters.

have the people saying it doesn't matter actually read the thread? That the second person then won't get information, won't get money they're entitled to, can't order cards, can't change the contract as they are not the 'primary account holder' - of course it matters.

I think it matters and I'd complain and cc in their manager

Grrrr I have had this. When we bought a property a couple of years ago I made all the arrangements as I'm a solicitor so that was logical. I'm also the higher earner so I made all the arrangements for a bridging loan. The loan did come with my name first. But when we had completed the Land Registry put husband's name first. Worse still the conveyancers had a surplus on the client account. Now they were well aware that the vast majority of the deposit and their fees had been paid by me from my personal account. Yet they sent a cheque addressed to my husband only. I made a complaint which was never even acknowledged.

Someone has posted up thread to give conveyancers a break, they are so busy blah blah. But if my law firm (perpetually busy - I worked 15 hour days this week) receives any complaints, however small or unfounded, they are put through a formal process. Busy is NOT an excuse.

Also a word about Thomas Cook (RIP). Booked flights for whole family with me as lead passenger, paid with my personal credit card, using my email as the contact. I got the tickets sent to my email all right but addressed to Dear Mr Husband (different surname to mine so deliberately changed, not a default to title only) AND he had been made lead passenger. I complained about that too but never heard back, they were probably a bit busy as they went bust 15 weeks later and we ended up missing the flight anyway ... but I digress.

This would piss me off too. Cant bear all of that penis swinging bullshit.
I work in a boys school. I have worked hard in breaking the mould there. There is an activity associated with a subject the boys do, it’s a heavily male orientated industry and only dads were allowed to the event. I spoke up as some mums work in that Industry and now it’s parents. Also, some kids don’t have a father actively in their lives either.
It is such an antiquated thought.
This isn’t the first time either that I’ve pulled them up on this sexist crock of shit.

Booked flights for whole family with me as lead passenger, paid with my personal credit card, using my email as the contact. I got the tickets sent to my email all right but addressed to Dear Mr Husband (different surname to mine so deliberately changed, not a default to title only) AND he had been made lead passenger

I had the same with TUI, they sent some stuff by post, addressed to DH only, even though he had nothing to do with the booking. What if it was a surprise trip? Guess if it was only me and baby DS travelling, he would be the 'lead'`?
I complained but no apology, just a 'no we always put the organiser as lead passenger'. Um, no, clearly you did not!

I think the point is the person typing isn’t always going to know who the main point of contact is so someone always has to come first.

A solution seems to be client A and client B which is completed by the client so it’s their choice.

@KatharinaRosalie

have the people saying it doesn't matter actually read the thread? That the second person then won't get information, won't get money they're entitled to, can't order cards, can't change the contract as they are not the 'primary account holder' - of course it matters.

It’s not that they’re not getting the info but that Mr’s name was first on a joint letter.

@Campervan69

I'm a conveyancer and have always put the women's names first when I draft documents. Tiny acts of feminism. Solidarity sister.

Hurrah for you!

I was reading something the other day about the MP Caroline Lucas sponsoring a bill in parliament and changing something in the explanatory note so it said he or she rather than just he. In 2012!

But if you think that's bad, it's only in the past year that the EU has finally accepted that not all consumers are "he" and now says he/she or they.

When DH and I bought our house, my name was first because I was the main contact. That was the old Cheshire building society which was later taken over by Nationwide. Hurrah for the Cheshire BS!

Businesses really need to stop this cr*p.

I'd be as pissed off as you and I'd call them out on it. I still remember the WTF face I pulled when a tradesman with whom I'd been liaising for weeks about completely refitting the heating system suggested that I should get my DH to sign the cheque. That's be the cheque for £thousands from the bank account in my sole name without which he wouldn't get paid at all?
This week I've told 'my' financial adviser that since he'd not bothered to answer my emails about an annual review but had spoken to my DH about MY investments/pension etc he could refund the fees and be grateful that I wasn't reporting him. DH is taking his business elsewhere in solidarity. If you want my business/cooperation/respect, treat me like an equal. I am small but mighty
And yes to the PP who put women first on documents. I do the same. On a side note, and I know it's changed recently but I was beyond peeved that I couldn't put my DM on my marriage certificate. My not DF did a bunk when we were tiny, left her destitute and erased us from his life. His celebrity increased in direct disproportion to his worth as a human being, so the name raised a few eyebrows at the registry office and I was too cowardly to fudge his occupation in case it invalidated anything .

@Jaxhog

Isn't it funny that the media etc gets all riled up about 'micro racism' but you never hear about 'micro sexism'. Which is what this is.

Because racism matters but sexism is only about women so it doesn't.

Hence why BAFTA continued to give Noel Clarke his award. Had he been white, they would have reacted much faster.

It’s not that they’re not getting the info

I quote:

• I ended up being chased up for something "we" hadn't done as the email had only gone to him
• They addressed it to my ex husband first- my ex husband! The house was all mine, we were separated and he wasn't even living in the house
• When the building societies mutualised, he was sent the cheques. I did not see any of that money
• then when the Home Owners Association started sending through mail, it's only addressed to my husband
• the latter then wouldn't take my call to sort it out 'because I wasn't the account holder
• Caused endless hassle checking into hotels

All because someone decided to change what was requested and that man's name goes first/man is lead passenger/man is account holder. And that's just the first 5 pages of this thread.

@StCharlotte

I think I’ll mention it next time I talk to them. They seem like nice enough people so it was probably unconsciously done but I feel it needs highlighting.

It will be entirely unconscious because technically It's not wrong.

I work for a solicitor and type it this way round because I can't be expected to know who "wears the trousers" (ironically) in every household. I do put Mr X Smith & Mrs Y Smith as opposed to Mr & Mrs X Smith and all letters to single women are Ms. Baby steps...

I'm sure the younger legal secretaries will be along to smash the patriarchy soon enough.

and I will put two spaces after a full stop until the day I die

But what when Mrs Smith puts herself down as buyer one? Why swap it over? Just do it in that order.