Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

Didn’t Hartlepool vote over 70% for Brexit? There is your answer and that Labour has lost direction completely.
The reality of Brexit won’t be felt by the majority of the country for a long time. When reality hits the Tory voters Boris Johnson will blame Covid-19 and ‘The EU’ for their party failings.
The fact that the Tories have been fleecing their voters of their hard earned money and that the Tories only care about themselves will continue to go unnoticed.
I cannot fathom how a country will allow it’s politics be dictated by tax haven owners of newspapers and foreign media owners.
I see people complaining on social media about the state of politics but the politicians and their voters aren’t interested.

The vast majority of people do not want old Labour anymore. They want aspiration, control and conservative values. A New Labour would have stood a better chance.

There are some serious misunderstandings in some parts of Labour about what people want for a variety of reasons.

Not Hartlepool but close, our local labour government has done nothing but fuck us up the arse my whole life. its not than we want Tories. There's just not much other options. I go independent where possible but even those weren't an option this year because the independent candidate was a conspiracy theorist covid denier and antivaxxer.
Had to go lib dem just to avoid the others. And they're useless too.

Labour are ‘blamed’ because their inability to offer a viable opposition to one of the weakest governments in history is a catastrophic failure.

How viable can an opposition be when the incumbent government has a majority of 80 ?

@frumpety

About the 'don't know what a woman is ' argument, are Conservative MP's asked this question ? Has Boris ever been asked ? What were their replies ?

I’ll be honest, I’m not sure if Boris has ever been asked that directly (although he clearly does know what a woman is: he’s impregnated about a thousand of them).

The question gets directed more towards Labour MPs because they instigated ‘all women shortlists’ in order to be seen to redress the sex imbalance in politics, then promptly included people who are biologically male onto those lists and told anyone who didn’t agree that TWAW that they didn’t want their support and should bog off as they weren’t welcome in the party.

Thus, #labourlosingwomen happened.

@BaileysforBreakfast

Because ordinary working people don't feel that the Labour Party represent them any more

This argument really makes me laugh. Do 'ordinary working people' (I'm one) think the Tories represent them then?

Er....yes they do. That's the point. At least compared to Labour.

TrickyD
Thick plebs voting for toffs.
Preferring to be told attractive lies rather than truths they don’t want to hear.

As someone who used to vote Labour and now feels completely lost with it all,
this is the exact vile attitude that would put me right off voting Labour now.

I like to remind myself that it’s only since 2019 that the Conservatives have had any significant majority recently. And for people my age (30ish) this is perhaps the first time we have seen the real ‘nasty party’ associated with the 80s. I dont know how long this Conservative winning streak will Last.

And I really don’t think trans issues have the traction MN thinks they do with the wider population. Although It makes me anxious to see how many people are willing to defined our current conservative government because they will be emboldened to get away with who knows what - i mean they’ve been comically shit and I don’t see how a party that purged its own members as recently as 2019 (Nicholas Soames etc) and is currently going through some kind of faction war can be seen as any less divided than labour. They are also driving ‘culture wars’ to their own ends by exaggerating the ‘wokery’ of the left - so they are as responsible for the sense that identity politics is taking over as Labour. Yet they are still seen as ‘better than the alternative’. I can only attribute this to the fact That Corbyn was so completely discredited and that Starmer is going to find it very hard to repair the image of the whole party. And I guess the fact that most of our print media is run by billionaires 🤷🏻‍♀️

@RightOnTheEdge

TrickyD Thick plebs voting for toffs. Preferring to be told attractive lies rather than truths they don’t want to hear.

As someone who used to vote Labour and now feels completely lost with it all,
this is the exact vile attitude that would put me right off voting Labour now.

It’s repugnant isn’t it I agree Right

Op I’m not surprised

Labour are not cohesive and will lose more if they go further left again

All the people, probably labour voters, saying, ' I just don't understand it' are the reason why Labour is still not being voted for.

Its really not that hard to work out, the reasons have been staring you in the face for a long time. If you don't want to face up to it, if you don't want to understand working people's lives, if you just want to shake your head in disbelief at how they can't see you are as great at you think you are, if you want to disappear into only being electable in cities and by students, carry on. Join the lib dems and leave the rest of the country to the Tories forever.

@starfro

People want optimism and a better future. Vaccines, investment and jobs are all seen as the Tory agenda.

All Labour offers is telling them they're all racists and that lockdown should go on even longer (harming working class people).

I don't agree with the SNP, but their popularity is linked to offering what they claim is a utopian future under Independence. It gives something positive to vote for, even if it's bollocks.

Labour and left are too negative and critical

You see it on here, in media and generally

It’s painted them in a corner with no forward path

@TrickyD

Thick plebs voting for toffs.

Preferring to be told attractive lies rather than truths they don’t want to hear.

I think this is a big part of the problem. If this is your attitude to the people who employ you you'll be out of work for a long long time.

Exactly @GlassBoxSpectacular

It’s not what is necessarily happening now . It’s about how people can see the future and they need to see a direction and firm policies .

If you can’t see that future or know what a party stands for anymore then you will of course vote elsewhere

Concentrating on wallpaper and quite frankly costs that were a drop in the ocean compared to previous PM is a big mistake .

By the way as an ex barrister should he not know he should not be assuming guilt until a full investigation is completed ?

Hartlepool voted overwhelmingly for Brexit and the current vaccine drive as compared with the rest of Europe is proving to those people that Brexit was the right decision. They’ve now moved over to the Conservative party and Labour is offering nothing to bring them back.

Do 'ordinary working people' (I'm one) think the Tories represent them then?

Many of them must do, otherwise they wouldn’t be voting for them.

Voting in the current climate is essentially voting for what you believe to be the marginally less shit option out of all of the really shit options. People may not necessarily feel fully represented by the Conservatives so much as feeling completely unrepresented by the current Labour Party.

Thank you for the responses re ‘woke’. I also wish Labour would drop some of their extreme views re women, but as a minority myself I do worry about the move towards far right politics.

Can people state what they would want from a Labour Party?

Ideally I’d like a strong focus on public services, economic model, investment and housing.

I cannot see how this country can move forward until some of our dire poverty and inequality is addressed and I don’t trust the Tories to do that.

@caitQ

In Hartlepool, voting Conservative was a protest.

Keep an eye out for the Mayor of London results on Saturday evening - those should be interesting.

A protest? Against what? You protest vote against those in power, i don't think you can have a protest vote for the govt!

I think one of the big issues is that there is no clarity at all about what Labour under KS stands for? I heard him on the today show and he did his 5 priorities but it was just waffle with no policy at all. As far as Labour are concerned they think they don't have to actually have policies until the next GE as far as I can see. Therefor when I stood in the polling booth (not hartlepool) yesterday I couldn't vote for them as I had no idea what they stand for.

Labour are going to continue losing until they actually start listening to the people who live in places like Hartlepool.

Sadly true, AgeLikeWine, and who knows when that will be? It doesn't seem likely any time soon.

Overall I think as someone said above, the Labour Party needs to split.

Octopus
Er....yes they do.

So, HOW do the Tories represent the 'ordinary working people' because I struggle to see it myself?

@fromdownwest

Spot on. Well said.

How viable can an opposition be when the incumbent government has a majority of 80?

Why would the size of the Tory majority prevent Labour from pulling themselves together as a viable voting option that offers a cohesive set of policies that reflect that values and concerns of substantial segments of the population?

What is Labour's policy on Europe? I still can't make it out and they don't seem to know.

The most important political topic since WWII (imo) and Labour can't agree a coherent answer.

I'd say that's what's going on. It's so frustrating.

@musingloud

All the people, probably labour voters, saying, ' I just don't understand it' are the reason why Labour is still not being voted for.

Its really not that hard to work out, the reasons have been staring you in the face for a long time. If you don't want to face up to it, if you don't want to understand working people's lives, if you just want to shake your head in disbelief at how they can't see you are as great at you think you are, if you want to disappear into only being electable in cities and by students, carry on. Join the lib dems and leave the rest of the country to the Tories forever.

This Totally agree

In the general election it was a three horse race between Labour, Con and Brexit. Now the Brexit votes have gone to Cons

This. Hartlepool hasn't changed direction since the last GE. Labour only got 38% of the vote then, but the right-wing vote was split.

I have no idea why anyone would vote Tory. They are dangerous. Much of it is down to the right-wing press in England. It's not about accusing the plebs of being thick. I think anyone from any background has to be incredibly blinkered and naive to vote for the Tories in their current form. The left really needs to stop tearing itself apart and just get Labour in, before the Tories systematically dismantle our democratic rights.