What do the Labour party need to do to stop their slow death?

[flashbac]

I'll start:

Starmer needs to stop acting like a rabbit in the headlights and actually stand for something. He has no charisma or gravitas. We want someone with a personality. Stand for something Starmer!

Stop pandering to the 'red wall'. Inspire people to vote for the party with some good policies instead of flip flopping about.

Have some inspiring and uplifting policies like:

• Free childcare for working parents
• making public transport normal and affordable
• subsidised green energy initiatives to help householders lower energy bills eg solar panels etc

And they NEED to distance themselves from that anti science TWAW stance. I'm all for being kind but a blanket dilution of what 'woman' means is regressive.

@TeacupDrama

TAKE Hartlepool as there is a by election, Joe bloggs works with his parents and brother in family plumbing business he makes about 30,000 maybe 34000 with overtime call outs, his partner works part time in tesco and earns 5000 they have a 4 and 6 year old, they don't need child care as school nursery mum and granny manage it between them they saved small deposit and got house like this www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/105970676#/media?id=media0

Next door the Hussain's he is a bus driver and his wife is a care assistant his Widowed mum lives with them and does most of the child care, , a few doors up are the smiths he works in a factory and his wife is at home with baby. All of them are home owners with a car none are on benefits, neither are they wealthy but they are all doing fine, their kids play together, but also none of them feel the labour party either cares about them or shares their values or supports them in fact they feel alienated by them dismissed as bigots or thickos or racists or sexist . Almost that they are too ordinary to be listened to or have their views respected. It feels like tiny tiny minority groups like TWAW are ahead of ordinary folks to their detriment
People like this make up the vast majority of the population, hard working managing fine not luxuries they care about family community, their faith, work education , law and order and the NHS , most people I used to see as patients are likethis they are decent honest and nice good neighbours and I've a lot of time and respect for them a tiny tiny percentage are scroungers milking the system, some are really struggling, some are JAM, some are doing quite well

Yes I agree with this and your previous post.

I am surprised that no one in the Labour Party have realised this when to most people it is quite obvious .

I also agree with the point about understanding why people voted for brexit on your previous post, and not treating them as if they didn’t understand what they were doing and that they were stupid (or racist), when many has perfectly valid , genuine reasons.

‘Read the post? where did i say that?‘

I did read the post, thank you, which was how I was able to quote back to you the exact line of your post which can be read no other way than conveying a low opinion of the voters.
If you didn’t mean it like that perhaps you can rephrase.
I don’t disagree with you about the importance of the media, btw, but why did you feel to include that line if it is not what you think?

Yes, I have previously voted Labour but I find I don't know what they stand for or their policies. They haven't provided any opposition to the conservatives. The two parties used to be quite separate and you knew what you were voting for. I don't know who to vote for this time, just like last time it is a case of which is less worse. It's very frustrating.

@keiratwiceknightly

One of the biggest challenges Keir Starner seems to have is his lack of charisma - he is as straight as a die, hard working, good credentials etc but he is up against a PM who is corrupt, shambolic, incompetent... but has bags of charisma as is v good at using the media. Sadly people fall for that.

I know nothing about him on a personal level, and to be honest he doesn’t interest me enough to want to find out!

He always sounds like he has a cold (like Ed milliband did) which is off putting to listen to and detracts from what he is saying...

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

‘Read the post? where did i say that?‘

I did read the post, thank you, which was how I was able to quote back to you the exact line of your post which can be read no other way than conveying a low opinion of the voters.
If you didn’t mean it like that perhaps you can rephrase.
I don’t disagree with you about the importance of the media, btw, but why did you feel to include that line if it is not what you think?

Thats my point, the media has huge influence, why else is there a multi billion pound advertising industry?

We ALL fall for it, political advertising is no different, its not meant as a slur on anybody.

“Doesn't say much about us voters does it?”

@jasjas1973

You’re making the typical labour voter/party mistake of assuming everyone agrees with your view and treating those who don’t as too stupid to have an opinion.

I agree with your point about the media though.

Until labour start listening to their core voters and stop trying to appeal to the woke minority, they are finished unfortunately.

For me I just can’t picture his face. I can recognise him when he comes on tv but as soon as his face disappears I couldn’t describe him apart from the word grey. I think he needs a stylist to make him stand more memorable

@jasjas1973 absolutely agree with you.
The Tory party is in the midst of a scandal, this time about sleaze and cronyism, and yet again a thread about how the Labour Party is failing it’s core voters, funny that
Thing is Starmer can’t win. If he challenges the government (as he does in PMQs every week) he’s branded unpatriotic and exploiting a crisis. If he doesn’t he’s accused of arselicking. No one knows labour policies because we are in the middle of a pandemic and several years from a GE. Unlike his predecessor who was never off the front page for all the wrong reasons, he’s been elbowed out of the media because he was viewed as a threat.
Now the tories are quite happy to let momentum types do the job for them when you look at the vitriol he’s getting on Twitter etc.

Taco Tuesday!!!

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

‘Doesn't say much about us voters does it?‘

And there we see the classic Labour problem, despising the voters.

Yep

They don't think people can think for themselves

That and still many Corbyn supporters within the party. No decent human being can vote for then until that stops.

None of my views have been influenced by the media. I'm looking at what Labour politicians say and do, and how party members behave in public and on social media. None of it is good

@Watermelon1234

'but also none of them feel the labour party either cares about them or shares their values or supports them in fact they feel alienated by them dismissed as bigots or thickos or racists or sexist'.

This is spot on. This is what Labour and their supporters need to address. And not just give working class people lip service by pretending to care about them.

Thing is, the Conservative party is an absolute shit show too- well more so really. Why are they not dying a slow death?

Blair showed the power of media but I don’t think the media are as against Starmer as they were say, Milliband.

It’s not a great connection yet admittedly but there’s room for improvement.

It needs an approach the public can get into though. We tend to go towards centrist parties - as Blair was.

I actually want him to do better. I don’t know any other Labour person I’d want instead. Charisma isn’t as much of an issue as it has to be but he does need to lead coming out of this.

However pandemic situation is a double bind. As pp said you attack or agree. You don’t always have all the data fast enough either as the government will through briefings.

They have an up hill battle and I hope he gets somewhere. I don’t really want an opposition that is too weak.

@Watermelon1234 what’s the obsession with woke ? Can’t working class people be woke ? A little bit of cheeky condescension going on there lol.
The thing is many labour policies have been expropriated by the tories.
Someone obviously thinks they will appeal to the ‘working classes’

@SunsetBeetch

None of my views have been influenced by the media. I'm looking at what Labour politicians say and do, and how party members behave in public and on social media. None of it is good

I don’t rely on headlines either more what they say in person (on air), which is their own words.

‘The Tory party is in the midst of a scandal, this time about sleaze and cronyism, and yet again a thread about how the Labour Party is failing it’s core voters, funny that ‘

Not really. As a natural Labour voter the time when it really hits home not feeling you can vote for Labour is when the Tories are at their absolute worst.

Doesn't say much about us voters does it?

I wouldn’t deflect the problem if I were Labour otherwise the issues won’t be addressed.

Blair wooed Murdoch, Blair won.... like it or not, the media has huge power on what is reported and the tone in which it is done... you might be immune from this but many are not

Jasjas If the media are so powerful and right wing supporting, then how did left wing Labour - viz. Denis Healey “we’ll squeeze the rich until the pips squeak” governments win elections in the past?

But what if some of those views are racist or bigoted? I live in a thoroughly working class red wall area. The views expressed about some of the minorities living here are disgusting and totally untrue. Read the comments section in our local newspaper. Talking to people, especially just before the Eu ref, I was really surprised by the vitriol directed at certain minorities. Honestly don’t know what labour can do about that. Go along with it ?

@keiratwiceknightly

One of the biggest challenges Keir Starner seems to have is his lack of charisma - he is as straight as a die, hard working, good credentials etc but he is up against a PM who is corrupt, shambolic, incompetent... but has bags of charisma as is v good at using the media. Sadly people fall for that.

Indeed. Tony Blair won 3 times due to his charisma, and voters didn't seem to care about his flaws, i.e. the incompetence (GP contracts), dishonesty (Gulf War), corruption (Sweetheart tax deals).

[quote Schonerlebnis]@Watermelon1234 what’s the obsession with woke ? Can’t working class people be woke ? A little bit of cheeky condescension going on there lol.
The thing is many labour policies have been expropriated by the tories.
Someone obviously thinks they will appeal to the ‘working classes’ [/quote]
You tell us.

I don’t rely on headlines either more what they say in person (on air), which is their own words.

Same. Nobody made Lisa Nandy make an utter fool of herself by saying she supported men being put in women's prisons. She did that all by herself.

Too woke. Liberal nonsense. Have forgotten who they should be representing (clue - not the liberal elite/BBC mob)

I don’t know any of the policies or what they stand for but if they could just take a stance on something it might guide me

I don’t think Blair’s wooing of the media was solely why he won. I think he did what a lot of Labour leaders don’t do.
He recognised that even if someone was born poor and working class it didn’t mean they wanted to stay poor and working class
They wanted help to earn enough to own their own house and car and instead of complaining about rich landlords and bosses they wanted to be able to be the very thing that subsequent Labour leaders despise