What do the Labour party need to do to stop their slow death?

[flashbac]

I'll start:

Starmer needs to stop acting like a rabbit in the headlights and actually stand for something. He has no charisma or gravitas. We want someone with a personality. Stand for something Starmer!

Stop pandering to the 'red wall'. Inspire people to vote for the party with some good policies instead of flip flopping about.

Have some inspiring and uplifting policies like:

• Free childcare for working parents
• making public transport normal and affordable
• subsidised green energy initiatives to help householders lower energy bills eg solar panels etc

And they NEED to distance themselves from that anti science TWAW stance. I'm all for being kind but a blanket dilution of what 'woman' means is regressive.

Oblahdeeoblahdoe

I'm genuinely baffled by these statements - who has told you that the Labour Party don't want people to succeed? Neither of you are unhappy to pay higher taxes, I'm the same but I've never felt that the LP 'demonise' me. I could understand what you mean if you were landed gentry. Lots of LP members are middle class and well paid. I think it's the press that have made you feel this way

I think it was Labours manifesto saying there would be an “investment blitz” on the wealthy. Only the wealthy turned out to be those earning over £80,000 which if you have a family and only one income it isn’t a great deal if you live in an expensive area as well.
Add into the fact if there are 2 people working earning only £40,000 each their joint income would outstrip the one person on £80,000 but Labour would consider you poor so would get more help.
Their last manifesto had such gaping holes in it and was based on going after those that had succeeded and on a supposedly higher income and giving to the poor rather than putting in place policies that those starting out with nothing could help themselves.

This wasn’t about only affecting billionaires (not that you would get any money out of them) and the landed gentry but about those who were on a reasonable salary
It was about contraction instead of expansion and making everything more expensive for everyone.

I know people aren't impressed with Starmer, and I've certainly been disappointed myself. But: was there a viable alternative? Who would replace him?

(I think this is another reason why Labour is so fecked.)

I will vote Labour because I want the Tories out and I don't believe in diluting the opposition. But in my heart I'm sick and tired of party politics.

It is a legitimate thing for any decent person to vote for any of the main parties without being treated with contempt there are good people in all walks of life voting for all the main parties, people need to see there are reasons why people vote for or against brexit for or against scottish independence and that most of the reasons are completely understandable even if you do not personally age with that view point. If you seriously can't understand why someone would vote for brexit or tory instead of labour and EU you are no where near solving why labour doesn't attract votes.
Working class labour voters traditionally consisted of lots of groups, the very poor on benefits, industrial workers miners steel workers etc, but also includes plumbers painters hairdressers hospital porters etc etc as well as teachers nurses etc most working class people actually work in the private sector in small and medium size businesses lots of them are self employed. Working class people want the private sector to work, they work in businesses that often have less than 10 employees.
The labour party also assumed that they had the majority of BAME vote but seem not to realise that on average BAME ARE more socially conservative and more religious and some woke policies are in direct conflict with their culture and beliefs. Boys identifiying as girls and thinking they have right to use female toilets and changing rooms is not goingto go down well in a school where most girls wear a hijab to school.

This

Get one of the young women voted in during last election to be leader.

Oh god no. Just no.

@SunsetBeetch

Get one of the young women voted in during last election to be leader.

Oh god no. Just no.

Not unless it’s Rosie Duffield.

@TeacupDrama

It is a legitimate thing for any decent person to vote for any of the main parties without being treated with contempt there are good people in all walks of life voting for all the main parties, people need to see there are reasons why people vote for or against brexit for or against scottish independence and that most of the reasons are completely understandable even if you do not personally age with that view point. If you seriously can't understand why someone would vote for brexit or tory instead of labour and EU you are no where near solving why labour doesn't attract votes. Working class labour voters traditionally consisted of lots of groups, the very poor on benefits, industrial workers miners steel workers etc, but also includes plumbers painters hairdressers hospital porters etc etc as well as teachers nurses etc most working class people actually work in the private sector in small and medium size businesses lots of them are self employed. Working class people want the private sector to work, they work in businesses that often have less than 10 employees. The labour party also assumed that they had the majority of BAME vote but seem not to realise that on average BAME ARE more socially conservative and more religious and some woke policies are in direct conflict with their culture and beliefs. Boys identifiying as girls and thinking they have right to use female toilets and changing rooms is not goingto go down well in a school where most girls wear a hijab to school.

This

Totally agree.

They need to move away from the student identity politics and 6th form responses to issues particularly same sex spaces. I don’t actually mind Keir. I think it’s a difficult job but he does jump on band wagons a bit too much, he never leads the agenda. Even all this “crony “ stuff is not from him but the Times I think and he is just riding the wave. He also has a poor shadow cabinet.
But overall less identity nonsense and stuck up for women and girls and I might get on board.

Definitely move away from thinking that opinions in north London represent the whole of England. I'm from London but have friends in Yorkshire and spend a lot of time there - they have absolutely no time for identity politics and feel betrayed by Labour. How come the party can't see it?

And I hate the sneering way they talk about the working class. Like when Emily Thornberry tweeted about Rochester with England flags and white vans on their drives. That's what a lot of WC communities are like - so they're not good enough for Labour now?

@SunsetBeetch

I know people aren't impressed with Starmer, and I've certainly been disappointed myself. But: was there a viable alternative? Who would replace him?

(I think this is another reason why Labour is so fecked.)

I’d probably stick with him. I hope he can pull it together, being opposition in a pandemic is not an easy gig. Although maybe it’s like this regardless.

But a lot of Labour sounded unrealistic, and he went down badly here with his nursery comment.

Excellent post Teacupdrama. I totally agree.

Plus they need to address the issue of anti Semitism - I don't think a new leader is enough. Before the 2019 election my Jewish friends were honestly planning to leave the country if Labour had got in. They had packed and asked me in all seriousness how long I thought it would take to pass laws to take their passports or stop them leaving (I'm a civil servant). I couldn't believe that in the UK I was being asked how long before we started taking their rights away. That will take a long time to heal.

@AnneElliott

Plus they need to address the issue of anti Semitism - I don't think a new leader is enough. Before the 2019 election my Jewish friends were honestly planning to leave the country if Labour had got in. They had packed and asked me in all seriousness how long I thought it would take to pass laws to take their passports or stop them leaving (I'm a civil servant). I couldn't believe that in the UK I was being asked how long before we started taking their rights away. That will take a long time to heal.

That's horrible

TAKE Hartlepool as there is a by election, Joe bloggs works with his parents and brother in family plumbing business he makes about 30,000 maybe 34000 with overtime call outs, his partner works part time in tesco and earns 5000 they have a 4 and 6 year old, they don't need child care as school nursery mum and granny manage it between them they saved small deposit and got house like this
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/105970676#/media?id=media0

Next door the Hussain's he is a bus driver and his wife is a care assistant his Widowed mum lives with them and does most of the child care, , a few doors up are the smiths he works in a factory and his wife is at home with baby. All of them are home owners with a car none are on benefits, neither are they wealthy but they are all doing fine, their kids play together, but also none of them feel the labour party either cares about them or shares their values or supports them in fact they feel alienated by them dismissed as bigots or thickos or racists or sexist . Almost that they are too ordinary to be listened to or have their views respected. It feels like tiny tiny minority groups like TWAW are ahead of ordinary folks to their detriment
People like this make up the vast majority of the population, hard working managing fine not luxuries they care about family community, their faith, work education , law and order and the NHS , most people I used to see as patients are likethis they are decent honest and nice good neighbours and I've a lot of time and respect for them a tiny tiny percentage are scroungers milking the system, some are really struggling, some are JAM, some are doing quite well

Not unless it’s Rosie Duffield.

Oh god that would be amazing. Especially if accompanied by a mass strop and walk-out by Bromentum and the Blue Hairs.

Coming soon: Mass Strop and Walk-Out! the new album from Bromentum and the Blue Hairs.

Stop being racist.
Stop being misogynist
Work out a foolproof plan to close tax loopholes for the super rich and multinationals that doesn't involve them just whisking all their business off to the 3rd world and China. They have to find a working economic industrial model.

I haven't voted for them in so many years and yet if their policies were sound they'd be my first choice.

Labour have all the polices the OP is stating she wants, they support green initiative, cheaper public transport and free childcare plus a load of others on traineeships for young people, housing, transport its all there.... plenty of clear water between Lab and Con.

The problem Labour have is that whoever is leader, the narrative of the media will be to rubbish them.
Brown, Miliband, Corbyn, Starmer and their selective teams, offered a wide and varied policy selection... yet all have failed to cut through to the public.

We have a govt that even in the height of the pandemic and an NHS practically overwhelmed, still stayed ahead in the polls, now we have real corruption and shocking allegations that BJ said he'd "rather see bodies piling up in the streets than have another lockdown" but still the Tories are 10pts ahead of Labour, despite a majority thinking BJ is corrupt!! Doesn't say much about us voters does it?

What people forget with Blair is that he courted the media and won them over, until Labour can do similar, i do not believe this country will ever have a Labour govt under our FPTP system.... however, i thought Trump would win again, so i'd love to be proven wrong :)

‘Doesn't say much about us voters does it?‘

And there we see the classic Labour problem, despising the voters.

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

‘Doesn't say much about us voters does it?‘

And there we see the classic Labour problem, despising the voters.

Yep we're all stupid and let the press lead us by the nose. It's the only explanation

Keir Starmer has turned out to be a massive disappointment. Better than the last one but only in his blandness. It seems like everyone just ignores him, and I can see why.

AnneElliott

I know we were ready to go if Labour got in. Many of the people we know in our area had a plan that could be put into action if they needed to move quickly.
Even now the way people are spying on their neighbours and informing of supposed Covid breeches and phoning the fraud department on “friends” because they think claiming UC as well as being on the government grant scheme is somehow fraudulent it makes me uneasy that people can be so easily turned against one another

We are selling up and we still don’t know if we will stay or go.

One of the biggest challenges Keir Starner seems to have is his lack of charisma - he is as straight as a die, hard working, good credentials etc but he is up against a PM who is corrupt, shambolic, incompetent... but has bags of charisma as is v good at using the media. Sadly people fall for that.

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

‘Doesn't say much about us voters does it?‘

And there we see the classic Labour problem, despising the voters.

Read the post? where did i say that?

The point is, as i said, Labour have had a variety of leaders over the last 11 years and got no where.

Blair wooed Murdoch, Blair won.... like it or not, the media has huge power on what is reported and the tone in which it is done... you might be immune from this but many are not.

e.g. the way Miliband ate a 'burger or compare coverage of Brown and that bigoted woman and Bojo's affairs, children & corruption.

I am very disappointed in Starmer.
He has stood by and allowed Rosie Duffield to be bullied, he has allowed the party to be taken over by misogynist, ignorant activists. There is no evidence that he has made any progress on antisemitism.
He doesn't have the courage to stand up to the bad apples in the party, he just side steps the issues. It is a cop out to blame voters. There is nobody to vote for.

I know we were ready to go if Labour got in. Many of the people we know in our area had a plan that could be put into action if they needed to move quickly

We are selling up and we still don’t know if we will stay or go

Where would you go?