What do the Labour party need to do to stop their slow death?

[flashbac]

I'll start:

Starmer needs to stop acting like a rabbit in the headlights and actually stand for something. He has no charisma or gravitas. We want someone with a personality. Stand for something Starmer!

Stop pandering to the 'red wall'. Inspire people to vote for the party with some good policies instead of flip flopping about.

Have some inspiring and uplifting policies like:

• Free childcare for working parents
• making public transport normal and affordable
• subsidised green energy initiatives to help householders lower energy bills eg solar panels etc

And they NEED to distance themselves from that anti science TWAW stance. I'm all for being kind but a blanket dilution of what 'woman' means is regressive.

I live in Leeds. One of our Labour MPs, Alex Sobel, recently stated on twitter that women shouldn't have the right to sex segregated hospital wards, refuges or prisons. He then doubled down by saying that women who wanted to defend our rights under the EA were bigots and he did not need our votes. Pity the councillors having that hanging over them.

We're also voting for West Yorkshire mayor this election. Only two candidates have stated they are against the "Red Light Zone" in Holbeck - the Tories and the Yorkshire Party. Labour on the other hand funded biased reviews into the area which falsely claimed it was a succesful policy and anyone questioning their results have been called whore-phobic. Even mothers whose primary aged children have been kerb crawled by punters.

I contacted my local Labour Councillor asking her about these issues because she seems a pretty decent woman on most things. I got the party line back about inclusivity being important. Apparently the concerns of women are not.

@Andante57 seemingly there may be a recording of it. Others reported hearing him say it.

Onetoomuch ah ok.
Do we know who recorded it?

I would like to think Labour in Leeds is in for a nasty shock, given their appalling record around women's rights and safety. Can anyone local say if this might affect the election next week?

I'm undecided who to vote for in London. Will have to have another look at the Independents and tiny little parties, I think. Tory, LibDem, Labour, Green, WEP, UKIP all off the table for various reasons.

Someone in an office presumably. Dominic Cummings possibly recorded it but who knows the actual truth ?

@LemonSwan this is the most accurate and funniest thing I’ve read in ages

“Stopping the identity politics rubbish. Currently its like watching a bunch of kids sitting in Bali high on Ayahuasca try to distinguish the meaning of life and connect with their inner souls to open a safe space to allow others to find themselves and heal society through thought power.”

@Onetoomuch

www.independent.co.uk/voices/keir-starmer-labour-leadership-election-lisa-nandy-jess-phillips-rebecca-long-bailey-a9296276.html

Not sure if this link will work.

www.pressreader.com/uk/the-scottish-mail-on-sunday/20200112/281509343127284

That Daily Mail article is desperate stuff. Oxted once ranked as UK's 20th wealthiest town. His family home may have an Aga. His father (in the theatre newsletter I linked to above) said Keir worked in 'my' factory. I've been known to refer to my place of work as mine. Doesn't mean I own it. But even if he did own it, so what? Tony Benn grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth. So did Jeremy Corbyn and Michael Foot. All had a far more privileged upbringing than Keir Starmer. I couldn't give a toss what sort of upbringing any politician had, unless they seem to have made no effort to learn what other people's lives are like. I don't think that can be said of Keir Starmer.

But these Tories are something else entirely. To vote for these lot... I don't get it. Labour are shit but that doesn't convert my vote to the current lot who are asset stripping the nation.

Why do you need to "get it"? Would you stop sneering about people's voting choices if you did?

It's simple enough, other people's lives are different to yours and their different experiences inform their voting.

All had a far more privileged upbringing than Keir Starmer.

Agree about the tone of the Mail article but level of privilege was not the point, it's the portrayal of Keira Starmer as a working class boy who made it. A number of Labour MP's make out they had very humble beginnings to appeal to the ordinary man/woman but the truth is often somewhat different.

It’s unfortunate some consider Starmer as put of touch given Johnson’s elite background

Part of it is how they speak, casually etc

Maybe Sir doesn’t help not sure

Out

@Desmorelda

Tory HQ most be working overtime to keep this thread going 15 pages and still going. 'It's this kind of thing that will give the tories a win in Hartlepool'. Have you seen the news this am ? Even the mail reckons Johnson is on the ropes...but no, nothing to see, just more Angela Rayner blah blah Diane Abbott, blah blah... And yes, I'll get accused of whataboutery but the whole thread is just a huge deliberate distraction from the really serious issues going on in government.

Yes, Boris is shit. Which is why it's so dispiriting that Labour are even shitter, because they cannot - have not - made any inroads. It's a fucking open goal, but they're so busy infighting and/or fence-sitting that Johnson trundles on.

So take your implication that people posting on these threads are Tories and have a damned good look at yourself, because you are demonstrating one of the biggest problems Labour has right now - the absolute belief that anyone who disagrees with them in the slightest must be a Tory, Alt-Right fascist.

Is thread was brilliant yesterday. People explaining their thoughts on what labour need to sort out. Why they now feel their is no party that represents them. Now it has turned into a Tory or Labour bashing thread☹

You just can't keep anything good for long on mumsnet 🤦‍♀️

*This

Desmorelda
I will spoil my ballot rather than vote Tory
I always vote because I spent ££££ getting the right
Boris Johnson and the Brexit rump of his party are odious shits

My dilemma is who else to vote for
because I am an adult human female
so in the eyes of Green / WEP / Libdem / Labour
I do not exist

Labour need to get rid of Sadiq Khan

And Diane Abbott and Annalise Dodd and.....the list goes on....

@ListeningQuietly

Desmorelda I will spoil my ballot rather than vote Tory I always vote because I spent ££££ getting the right Boris Johnson and the Brexit rump of his party are odious shits

My dilemma is who else to vote for
because I am an adult human female
so in the eyes of Green / WEP / Libdem / Labour
I do not exist

Who does represent women left of right? The socialist party?

The Socialist Workers Party still recognised sex class, I believe?

@MoltenLasagne

I live in Leeds. One of our Labour MPs, Alex Sobel, recently stated on twitter that women shouldn't have the right to sex segregated hospital wards, refuges or prisons. He then doubled down by saying that women who wanted to defend our rights under the EA were bigots and he did not need our votes. Pity the councillors having that hanging over them.

We're also voting for West Yorkshire mayor this election. Only two candidates have stated they are against the "Red Light Zone" in Holbeck - the Tories and the Yorkshire Party. Labour on the other hand funded biased reviews into the area which falsely claimed it was a succesful policy and anyone questioning their results have been called whore-phobic. Even mothers whose primary aged children have been kerb crawled by punters.

I contacted my local Labour Councillor asking her about these issues because she seems a pretty decent woman on most things. I got the party line back about inclusivity being important. Apparently the concerns of women are not.

This is the important stuff, the sort of issues that make someone decide to vote for a different party after decades of voting Labour. Not where the money came from to decorate no10. Until labour stop telling people with concerns that they are wrong and possibly a bigot, they stand no chance.

@ListeningQuietly

My voting options

Tory : No because of austerity and sleaze and Brexit

Libdem /Green : No because they do not recognise women

Ukip / related : No because of Brexit

TUSC / related : No because of Corrbyn / Momentum

Labour : In my heart yes, but until they sort ort the rights of women and voting for Brexit I am really, really struggling

I am not alone

Same here

To answer that @WhereYouLeftIt actually there are people on this thread who on other threads have clearly said they voted for the conservatives. It's the free for all lets throw insults rather than offer solutions vibe that makes me suspicious. Not like this at the start but it certainly is now. And I haven't accused anyone of being alt right so wind your indignant neck in and read the full thread. Maybe labour are not making inroads because erstwhile supporters are constantly sniping about a leader who hasn't even created a manifesto yet alone fought an election. The tories are corrupt but stick together at least you can say that for them !

Well, I hear what people are saying.

But, you know, I do like Labour.

I'm in Labour.

I'm not shouty or mean.

I don't think people who have different opinions to me are stupid.

I like to talk, listen, persuade, be persuaded.

I change my mind about things.

I think politics can't exist if people can't change their minds.

And I think different viewpoints exist - and just because someone holds a different viewpoint to me, it doesn't mean they're wrong! I might be. And I might learn a lot by listening.

And - weirdly enough - most of my friends in Labour are like me.

Sure, some people are like the people described negatively in this thread. 🤷‍♀️ But, unsurprisingly, they're not my friends.

I like Labour because - for me - it is the Party of aspiration. It's not about entrenching privilege, or hoarding opportunity - but about opening things up so that the things that hold back ambitious, hard-working people are removed. Give people a fair chance, give talent the opportunity to go it's full course, and everyone gets to live in a more exciting, wealthier country.

I like the fact that Labour has an ethic of collectivism - a real sense that public goods matter:

When you have a child, you're not completely on your own - we all benefit from producing the next generation, so women should get sick pay, good hospitals, support with child-care.

Likewise we all benefit from that next generation, so it's on all of us to invest in education, support for children and young people's mental and physical health and well-being.

I'd like to see a lot more of that.

There are loads of other reasons I love Labour.

I dearly hope we're not 'dying a slow death' because, if so, it leaves a really big hole in our political lives, and a much thinner narrative of how we want to live our lives.

Honestly, I really would love those of you who are fed up to join Labour, with me, and bring your love, hope and visions with you.

I, for one, would welcome you.

@thecatfromjapan
I get your point
BUT
Until Starmer stands up and says
that men have no place in female prisons
that men have no place in female sports
that lesbians cannot have a penis and testicles
that girls do not have to put up with boys in the school toilets
that all women shortlists are for people without a Y chromosome
Labour are missing out on millions and millions of votes

hopefully Maya's appeal result tomorrow will kick him into action
but too late for the postal votes