What do the Labour party need to do to stop their slow death?

[flashbac]

I'll start:

Starmer needs to stop acting like a rabbit in the headlights and actually stand for something. He has no charisma or gravitas. We want someone with a personality. Stand for something Starmer!

Stop pandering to the 'red wall'. Inspire people to vote for the party with some good policies instead of flip flopping about.

Have some inspiring and uplifting policies like:

• Free childcare for working parents
• making public transport normal and affordable
• subsidised green energy initiatives to help householders lower energy bills eg solar panels etc

And they NEED to distance themselves from that anti science TWAW stance. I'm all for being kind but a blanket dilution of what 'woman' means is regressive.

@WhereYouLeftIt

I'm not sure Labour can stop their slow death.

The party was for the working class and composed of the working class. Prescott, ship's steward. Johnson, postman. Workers who became union reps who moved into politics. Not any more. The trajectory seems to be politics degree, activist, MP's assistant, wait to be parachuted into a seat in a constituency you know nothing about. That, IMO, was the start of the slow death. And this slow death will continue for as long as they centre the student politics that such people bring with them.

We need another Kinnock. We've got a Starmer. Death beckons.

But Kinnock was mocked mercilessly. I like Keir Starmer but apparently decency doesn't win votes.

Evergreen meme

@SunsetBeetch

So Angela Raynor has just made an absolute prat of herself, huh?

Yep, holding a women accountable for her ex husbands job, getting facts wrong, and then doubling down with a misunderstanding between tax avoidance and tax evasion.

It's this kind of thing that will give the tories a win in hartlepool.

Get rid of the hard left and support women.

Yet another long time labour member not sure what to do as so disillusioned by the lack of support for women (and women MPs like Rosie Duffield). The Lisa Nandy prison remarks were reprehensible and epitomise the luxury beliefs of such out of touch politicians. The abuse Jess Phillips got for reading out the census of murdered women was also shocking (google Karen Ingala Smith if you want to know more about the census and haven’t read her blogs).
And Dawn Foster’s recent attacks on Kemi Badenoch were horrible. twitter.com/spikedonline/status/1385217569217523714?s=21

Anyone know if any candidates for london mayoral election know what women are, apart from Lozza Fox? The SDP support women’s rights and know TW are not women so may vote for their candidate but they’re pro Brexit which I don’t like (although I guess maybe it’s too late to worry about that now).

My goodness, that's an own goal from Angela Rayner. Does nobody check anything any more? As I've said over and over again before, never in human history has it been easier to dig into somebody's background, and yet people just don't bother. This is from Politico.

HARTLEPOOL LATEST: Unfortunate one for Labour’s Angela Rayner, who launched a stinging attack on the Tory Hartlepool candidate Jill Mortimer yesterday alleging she “has more connections with tax havens than she does with Hartlepool” and asking: “Why do people do business in the Cayman Islands? To avoid paying tax.” Big claim …

But alas for Rayner … it appears Mortimer was in the Caymans because her then-husband took the family there — so he could take a job as head of banking supervision at the Cayman Islands Monetary Authority, working to improve financial regulation, to counter-fraud and on anti-corruption in the Caymans. The Tories say Mortimer and her ex-husband did not gain any tax advantage from living in the Caymans and that she has no financial connection there.

Tory Chairman Amanda Milling tweets: “Contrary to Angela’s claim, Jill’s ex husband isn’t a ‘banker’.. …He’s a highly respected barrister, experienced financial services regulator awarded an OBE for services to regulation! Surely Lab doesn’t oppose this work? Is Angela judging a woman by the work of her ex?”

Insulting people who you need votes from whether it's Leave voters or women who believe in biological reality is never a good strategy. Too many Labour politicians and supporters have done this in the past few years then wonder why the party is losing support as if they are not part of the problem.

Tory HQ most be working overtime to keep this thread going
15 pages and still going.
'It's this kind of thing that will give the tories a win in Hartlepool'. Have you seen the news this am ? Even the mail reckons Johnson is on the ropes...but no, nothing to see, just more Angela Rayner blah blah Diane Abbott, blah blah...
And yes, I'll get accused of whataboutery but the whole thread is just a huge deliberate distraction from the really serious issues going on in government.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g what connections does she have with Hartlepool ? Guess she's a local ?

@Bythemillpond I think the problem with Labour is their war on anyone who wants to better themselves by starting a business or getting a better job that takes their salary over into “rich” section of society who need to be punished for earning more

My family did better under Brown’s Labour than under the successive Conservative Government’s. Under Labour when pregnant I received a universal health in pregnancy grant & my children both received money to start savings for them in child trust funds. The Conservatives took away my children’s child benefit as they introduced means testing to this hitherto universal benefit -in a divisive way as a household with 2 people earning 50k each are still eligible but one high earner over 100k isn’t.

I thought Labour’s election pledge for broadband was completely underwhelming last time and the core Corbyn team seemed unelectable. They need to go more middle left and winning policies are what will help your typical families daily life - more money in their pocket and better infrastructure, more help with childcare (these costs don’t just stop at school age). At the moment job incentives for companies to recruit young people. Environment is a key priority to their younger voters. Tough on Immigration was a big factor in Tory’s getting elected & on Brexit especially in Red Wall seats so they need a careful, sensible policy on this.

There wasn’t a lot of difference between Blair and Cameron & ultimately middle of the road policies are most attractive to the majority. At the moment Johnson’s gov are trying to capitalise on vaccine success but have very little else to celebrate from their time in office and it’s back to sleaze - financial corruption & disruption to education and that never sits well with voters.

I want Labour to win Desmorelda, there are also 'serious issues' going in Labour if they are still 10 points behind the Tories in the polls. I hope people in the Labour Party or people with connections to it see this thread and take note of what is being said.

Tory HQ most be working overtime to keep this thread going

Sigh, this is the kind of nonsense posters are talking about. Every criticism of Labour gets met with 'you must be a tory/hq bot/bigot' rather than any engagement with concerns.

FWIW I voted Labour from the age of 18 until a couple of years ago. Ignoring voters concerns or writing them off as tory
bots won't get people to vote Labour.

Sigh, this is the kind of nonsense posters are talking about. Every criticism of Labour gets met with 'you must be a tory/hq bot/bigot' rather than any engagement with concerns.

Yes, absolutely. They just will not learn

@Desmorelda

Tory HQ most be working overtime to keep this thread going 15 pages and still going. 'It's this kind of thing that will give the tories a win in Hartlepool'. Have you seen the news this am ? Even the mail reckons Johnson is on the ropes...but no, nothing to see, just more Angela Rayner blah blah Diane Abbott, blah blah... And yes, I'll get accused of whataboutery but the whole thread is just a huge deliberate distraction from the really serious issues going on in government.

No its not.

People will overlook all this shit if they are apathetic, indifferent or disillusioned by the alternative.

As I keep saying people want to vote FOR something they believe in, rather than merely to vote AGAINST a worse option.

Labour need to motivate voters rather than just saying 'well look how bad they are'. Its insufficient to get people out to the polls and have a high turnout which makes the difference in those crucial few seats.

I don't think you are doing whataboutery. I think you are completely missing the crucial point.

What do Labour stand for? Who do they represent?

Its not me. Its not women. Its not the working class. Its not northerners/midlanders. Its not rural or surburban voters. Its hard to argue its older voters.

They've painted themselves into a niche which has actively alienated others whose face doesn't fit.

Thats you core issue. Acknowledge it. Face up to it. Stop pandering to an unrepresentative membership. Start listening to the voting public as a whole rather than merely those who are good at lobbying through charity/third sector/twitter/internal channels. Stop lecturing or looking down on people for 'wrong think' and none existent 'hate'.

Stop saying to people 'well you don't understand what the important issues are like me'. Which kind of illustrates my point damn well. You make it sound like people here don't understand squirrels and the really serious issues in government. The trouble is that Labour is also guilty of many of those same flaws and a lot of people don't think that they would be an awful lot better off with Labour anyway.

I hope people in the Labour Party or people with connections to it see this thread and take note of what is being said.

Unfortunately I think the Labour suports on this thread are representative of the apparent attitude in the party - they'll balme people for being "wrong" or misled by papers or dimiss it as Tory PR.

I usually vote Labour - didn't last time in general though did more locally but I won't this time. I guess we'll see how representative I am of this area soon enough - though the huge number of new small parties on the ballot does suggest to me greater dissatisfaction with main parties than usual.

And yes, I'll get accused of whataboutery but the whole thread is just a huge deliberate distraction from the really serious issues going on in government.

You are SO missing the point.
The thing is that the more appalling the Tories get the harder we are banging our heads against the wall about the lack of an electable opposition.
Only a small number of people on this thread are talking about voting Tory. What most of us are talking about is how desperately we want a Labour party we feel we can vote for.

@Bythemillpond When people think that they could go for a pint with Boris and Nigel and be treated like equals

Ah yes Alexander de Pfeffle Johnson, prone to throwing in Latin phrases, dismissed his own journalists £250,000 salary as ‘chicken feed’, he’s a real man of the people. He does like chasing skirt and Farage is known for his intolerance of immigration so perhaps that’s what you think people would like to chat about with them at the pub. They are both popular though so obviously a lot of people like those attributes! Maybe Starmer should have an affair and make some offensive remarks about people from other countries to increase his popularity?

Tory HQ most be working overtime to keep this thread going

Perhaps people despair at the current state of labour and see things slightly differently to you. I haven't ever voted for the Conservative party but it's intolerant rubbish like this that makes me think I will at the next election. I'm sick of seeing people vilified for having the temerity to hold mainstream political beliefs. In a functioning democracy there is no place for cancel culture; disagree with people on the merits of their argument.

One of the key issues here is that the uk remains a socially conservative country, particularly outside London and some of the other major cities. Even within younger age groups. That doesn't mean people are racist etc. It means they want things like a community that is stable. They don't like gentrification where younger generations are forced to move away from where their family has been for years. (This is often blamed on immigrants but its actually far more complex than that). They want to maintain traditions. Thats not waving a St George's Cross about on the 23rd April. Its stuff like May Queens and Village Fetes etc. Things that are impossible to run if your entire community commutes long distances. They believe in material reality and down to earth stuff. Not word salad theology. They want things done. Not talked about and then a shit post on social media about 'inclusivity not being considered'. They don't need a equality report on how to fix potholes.

What was striking for me was how only 7% of voters, voted at the EU referendum on the basis of issues that were actually about our membership of the EU and could be influenced by Brussels. The majority voted on the basis of unresolved domestic issues on both a national and local level.

Its about going back to the coal face and tackling what people really feel affects them on a day to day basic rather than writing nice things on social media.

Look at a winner and copy them.

There have been 5 Labour governments with decent majorities. Attlee, Wilson, Blair, Blair, Blair.

A think a big chunk of the party want to be a good opposition rather than in government. Means they can say they're right without ever having to prove it.

I hate Boris Johnson but he's colourful and has personality. He makes Keir Starmer look like a grey flannel. Labour needs someone sparky and noticeable if they're ever going to make progress.

Nobody seems to be talking about climate change enough. I'm voting green for the foreseeable.

Yes indeed, Labour need a colourful charismatic leader with bounce liveliness and conviction. Not Starmer🥱

And they need to come from the North. Sorry to all the people in the south, I’m not being rude, but traditional Labour strongholds were always northern.

Dan Jarvis is my local mayor. He was a single parent and served in the army. He’s blunt and says what he thinks. That’s the sort of person they need. Not one of the chattering classes. Or Andy Burnham who stood up to Doris with passion.

I have to admit, I'm sneery about Tory voters. In my head, how can you not be a bit about people who have voted for these lying, corrupt "let the bodies pile up" bastards (especially BJ) but this thread has made me reflect on that a bit. I'm not saying I understand it fully (why not just spoil your vote then?) but it's made me think on it.

He needs to do a clear out of momentum. Distance himself and show that he is in power and not the unions.
However, he has a quiet, thoughtful and intelligent approach which I appreciate. It reminds me of Attlee who was a modest, quiet man who did not have any of the personality that Winston Churchill enjoyed. Thanks to Attlee and his government we all enjoy the NHS, pensions and then he solved the acute housing problems with inventive ideas such as prefabs etc. Not interested in personality, just results.

Dan Jarvis is my local mayor. He was a single parent and served in the army. He’s blunt and says what he thinks. That’s the sort of person they need. Not one of the chattering classes

Yes, Dan Jarvis is my MP. I've met him and I like him and up until he was mayor, he was a visible presence in town, unlike his (also Labour) predecessor. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem interested in being Leader of the party. Barnsley is a Labour stronghold but even that majority is slipping. It went from 15,000 to 3,000 in the last election and this is from a town that is red through and through.