Big dilemma for DD - what would you do?

[Blackenedsoul]

DD has accepted an offer for her Uni of choice to study Media in September. She’s been looking forward to going, had planned to live at home and travel the 20 minutes in every day.

She had a part time job for a few months in a local office attached to a very small but very busy manufacturing company. She’s very well thought of and works in the office on a Saturday, doing admin, answering enquiries, emails, booking appointments etc.

Today they’ve offered her a full time, permanent post in the office and have offered to start training her up in the use of their accounts systems etc, give her more responsibility. The salary is 18k to start rising to around a max of 25k once fully trained.

This has come as a bolt from the blue, DD really enjoys the job and thinks she’d be happy doing it full time but at the same time was also happy to go off and have the Uni experience, make new friends and study and have fun.

She’s aware that lots of students leave Uni and end up falling into admin roles vey much like this and is now wondering whether bothering with Uni is worth it.

We’ve told her the decision is entirely hers but she’s really finding it hard to decide.

So, the great of mumsnet - what would you do?

@Cindy87

100% Uni.

At her age she should be opening doors for herself, not settling for a maximum of £25k.

That is not what she would be doing.

I don’t think people are anti education I think it is in this case that the choice between doing a media degree which doesn’t sound like it was a passion for the dd but more as a convenient degree to do if she were to go to the local uni and a job that sounds like a book keeping type role which is also what the dd doesn’t want to do are neither things she should commit to.
I have said before if the job offer was from a company where she could learn on the job about one of her possible career options I think then university would be a wrong choice and to grab the job. But in this case I think the choices the dd has aren’t really great choices.
I think a year off to do loads of temping type jobs in lots of different industries and get a cv behind her and use the year as a fact finding mission about which of her career choices she really feels comfortable with and then either starting to work herself up in the industry as a lot of the choices you don’t necessarily need a degree or look for the degree course that will give her more opportunities and if that means leaving home then by next year hopefully she will get more of the university experience as well.

I don’t think leaving school and going into a career that you want to do through a college course and apprenticeship or doing an activity you love and earning money doing it is the school of hard knocks. If anything it is a blast. But there again if you don’t know what you want to do then I would keep on with education till A levels and then try different jobs to see which type of work you want to do with a view to going to uni in 1 or 2 years time. If you still don’t know after 2 years then go to uni to at least give you more options.

KleineDracheKokosnuss

The dd doesn’t want to do accounting or anything to do with accounting.

FinallyHere

Her mother’s exact words were
“I know DD and once she’s accepted the job she won’t want to leave and let them down - she thinks the world of her employers and as they are a small family company she’ll end up staying out of duty.”

Degree versus job is an entirely false dichotomy. No one is suggesting that a dead end job is to be preferred to a media studies degree.

The best opportunities around at the moment are apprenticeships which lead to a degree, sponsored by the employer.

Apprenticeships are available for popular subjects including finance, marketing, technical elements of broadcast media and IT. They are, of course, oversubscribed but not widely known about.

@Bythemillpond

Have you honestly no experience of parents worrying about things that never come to pass? Incurring the debts involved in a first degree just on the off chance that the girl feels obliged to stay in her first role seems a bit of an overreaction

Deferring a year could open up all sorts of possibilities

@Bythemillpond

KleineDracheKokosnuss

The dd doesn’t want to do accounting or anything to do with accounting.

FinallyHere

Her mother’s exact words were
“I know DD and once she’s accepted the job she won’t want to leave and let them down - she thinks the world of her employers and as they are a small family company she’ll end up staying out of duty.”

Then OP will need to guide her daughter in becoming more assertive and in understanding that she absolutely should not feel obligated to stay in any job/relationship/situation if it’s no longer what she wants to do and no longer the best thing for her.

@Blackenedsoul you need to help your daughter not to think and behave in that way. It’s not a healthy way for anyone, and particularly not females, to relate to the world.

@Cindy87

100% Uni.

At her age she should be opening doors for herself, not settling for a maximum of £25k.

She's not. She's starting herself on a potential career path and giving herself office based experience for her CV.

£25k may be the ceiling if she stays in the role forever but once she's got a year or two of work experience under her belt, then use that to move on to a role with more career progression

As I've said earlier in the thread, I was a manager in one of the worlds largest financial corporations. Over the years I was there I have employed 100's of people and there are several different ways to get onto a career path. Degree entry, apprenticeship or experienced hire.
None carry any guarantees but I can tell you I've sat on many graduate days where we have young people with decent degrees in subjects such as economics, accountancy, business and finance etc who 2 years after graduation are working in Costa and Waitrose. Sadly its the reality of the job market.

I've also had apprentices come in at 16/17/18 who have gone on to team leader and manager roles in their early 20's with a salary way above the much quoted £25k. I've also had several pass their apprenticeship, get the finance related exams and then move on to The City and very well paid roles at a young age.
One of my very best apprentices who I was gutted to lose is 22 and now earning nearly £40k without a degree but with 4 years work experience and 4 CISI exams passed.

There really isn't a one size fits all way to get a good career and I have to seen I am a big fan of the apprentice schemes having worked with them for quite a few years now

@Cindy87

100% Uni.

At her age she should be opening doors for herself, not settling for a maximum of £25k.

Even to do a media degree? With no career plans?

@KleineDracheKokosnuss

Defer for a year and take the job. Definitely. If she likes accounts she could then consider becoming an accountant and would have real world experience.

I would not advise anyone to pursue being an accountant. That job is quickly going extinct due to the increasing availability of automated accounting software. By 2030, it will either be gone or very low paid to compete with software....

The current time of accountant as glorified bean counter may be diminishing. If you look at the background of directors in FTSE100 and smaller companies you will see just how many have a background in accountancy.

Accountants are not glorified bean counters. CIMA is often a way into management.

The downside - month ends, quarter ends, year ends.

unless they actually gave her qualifications rather than a promise of promotion, i would advise she gains qualifications, be it by a degree or by an apprenticeship, is she can find one.

I know uni is eye-wateringly expensive these days but there are some disturbingly anti-education sentiments coming out of this thread, if you ask me. At this stage it wouldn't surprise me if someone came on and started extolling the virtues of attending the 'School of Life' followed by the 'University of Hard Knocks'. hmm

I don't think its anti education per se, but not pro soft subjects like media studies. Had the OP's daughter wabted to study Geography or History etc at a RG, I think the answers would have been different. 'Degrees' are becoming meaningless these days because of the saturation of frankly non-degree subjects from crap former polytechnics. The fact they're 'degrees' and charged at 9k a year is scandalous.

I'm sure someone's going to come along and call me a snob, but it's true.

As for the 'uni experience', nothing to stop young people getting a house share and having fun.

@Cam2020. I could not agree more. It feels like everyone is expected to go to uni....but if everyone does it really does become pointless.

There is more than one path in life, and the ability to be flexible in the face of changing circumstances and give yourself space to explore all options, think outside the box, etc. These are valuable skills as well.

Another vote for taking the job. Media studies is one so many people do and it's not worth it. I was sold the dream of making friends and having fun at university, but I was mostly depressed. I'm not alone in that.

Degrees are becoming meaningless these days because of the saturation of frankly non-degree subjects from crap former polytechnics
I dont agree with this. I’ve found the opposite to be true. A degree is now required in jobs where they didn't use to be at all. In the high school I work in, all teaching assistants have a degree, all admin staff have a degree. About ten years ago the head said previously she would never dream of getting someone with a degree in these roles, but now she has her pick of applicants.

If we have got to the stage where administration jobs need a degree we really have gone wrong. I speak as someone who has an administration job..It's madness.

it is a tough job market and the more qualifications the better,

I dont agree with this. I’ve found the opposite to be true. A degree is now required in jobs where they didn't use to be at all.

I agree, but usually RG unis. I'm an EA and to get anywhere you generally need a decent degree from a decent university a lot of the time. That's not a job you'd typically associate with with requiring a degree, or a job people would typically call a career! I'd say 80% of my current and former/colleagues who have gone on to have decent careers as EAs or even diversified from that, have RG degrees - those without have got 'stuck' and hit a ceiling.

Some companies I've worked or interviewed at will only employ people from certain universities across the board.

Obviously, this is all anecdotal and people have other experiences and insights, but this is what I have observed and influences my judgement that no degree (and no student debt) is better than a crap degree. Start in a job and take opportunities and training where you can that could lead to a professional qualification.

I also don't understand why simeone with a degree would be a TA and not do a one year PGCE to become a teacher - unless the undergrad degree wasn't one that qualified for PGCE, which would somewhat prove my point about soft degrees?

I did a similar degree joint with English and I've never earned more than £24k despite having managerial roles and experience of 5+ years in each role. I'm now pt working around the kids and not sure I'll ever earn above 25k

@KirstenBlest

Accountants are not glorified bean counters. CIMA is often a way into management.

The downside - month ends, quarter ends, year ends.

CIMA was a way into management for people who are now in their late 40s and older. When thinking about what will be valued 20 years from now, you can’t just cut and paste what a 45yr old did twenty years ago in 2001 and expect that to still be applicable advice for an 18yr old to acquire and be useful to them twenty years from now in 2041.

In my career field (Aerospace Engineering), Ive seen qualification inflation in such that you cannot even enter management now without a doctorate. When I first started, it was made clear to me I needed at least a masters. As a young intern, I worked for managers who had only bachelors degrees. Mid-career for me, the expectation changed from masters to doctorate. I was already management by then and was thankful I had not stopped after my masters because the lack of the PhD would have meant I would have topped out in my field at age 32. Unable to go any higher....

So not only can you not point to the CVs of today’s 50yr old CEOs and upper managers think copying their education levels will give today’s 18yr old the same opportunity, you have to project and think what will be expected twenty years from now when that 18yr old is 38?

The salary is 18k to start rising to around a max of 25k once fully trained.

Part of my doubts about the job route is whether or not this is in the employment contract or not? If it’s just a promise that after some undetermined number of years, the salary might go as high as £25k....then really the offer is only for £18k for FT work. That is not much.

OP, if your DD chooses the job route, ensure that the employment contract clearly states that her salary is Yr1 £18k, then Yrx or after attainment of certification. Y, will rise to £25k. If it’s not written in her contract that it will happen, then it’s an illusory carrot just thrown in to tempt her into accepting an £18k job. If it’s not in writing, then say three years from now and she’s at £18,500k and she asks about where is the £25k? They can legally and truthfully say that £25k was “the Max” and not a concrete promise so she can accept the extra £500/yr or find another job....

@PlanDeRaccordement, you are talking about aerospace engineering.
I have worked for plenty of organisations where managers do not have doctorates or even first degrees.