Big dilemma for DD - what would you do?

[Blackenedsoul]

DD has accepted an offer for her Uni of choice to study Media in September. She’s been looking forward to going, had planned to live at home and travel the 20 minutes in every day.

She had a part time job for a few months in a local office attached to a very small but very busy manufacturing company. She’s very well thought of and works in the office on a Saturday, doing admin, answering enquiries, emails, booking appointments etc.

Today they’ve offered her a full time, permanent post in the office and have offered to start training her up in the use of their accounts systems etc, give her more responsibility. The salary is 18k to start rising to around a max of 25k once fully trained.

This has come as a bolt from the blue, DD really enjoys the job and thinks she’d be happy doing it full time but at the same time was also happy to go off and have the Uni experience, make new friends and study and have fun.

She’s aware that lots of students leave Uni and end up falling into admin roles vey much like this and is now wondering whether bothering with Uni is worth it.

We’ve told her the decision is entirely hers but she’s really finding it hard to decide.

So, the great of mumsnet - what would you do?

"@Gwenhwyfar ‘at any point’ doesn’t have to mean at 35 or 40. "

Well, no, it can mean at any age, 60 or 70 for example.
My point is that she can only have the young student experience when she is, well, young. Even at 23, she will feel odd in a class of 18 year olds.

"But there are cons too. "

Apart from the student loan, what are the cons?
Yes, you can end up not getting a job that requires a degree, same as if you didn't go, but that puts you in the same position (in terms of wages/career), not worse.

I get the point about Covid and I can see how it would be OK to defer just for a year or two, but the risk is that she gets used to having an income and won't be able to do it.

The choice seems to be between a very ordinary job and no degree or a very ordinary job and a degree. The latter is better, isn't it?

Not necessarily. Not all degrees are created equal.

The choice seems to be between a very ordinary job and no degree or a very ordinary job and a degree.

This is why I would encourage her to get the job to pay for some professional training and look around for a training contract with another firm

Some of the higher apprenticeships currently offered by the larger firms offer a full time job, with time off for training and a cohort of others doing the same exams. It's not for the faint hearted but it really is a good way to get a degree and have some of that all important experience under your belt too

One example https://careers.sky.com/earlycareers/apprenticeships/

I’d encourage her to go to Uni but keep the job part time as she does now. I had a similar experience at that age. I left Uni mid-degree due to lack of finances and started in retail. After a year, I was the shop manager. The regional manager was impressed and had me audit shops in the region that were not doing as well as mine. Give their managers advice and feedback. This was a very successful summer I spent driving around doing audits as well as managing my shop. That summer I also hit my finances target to be able to return to uni and finish my degree. I was preparing to do that when the regional manager was promoted to the head office and I was offered her position. I was told I could work my way up the company, even be CEO one day. I chose to return to Uni and finish my degree and I do not regret it. At that age any job with any responsibility and success can be fun and rewarding, but for me I knew retail was not something I could do long term without getting burnt out.

Your DD is being offered dead end job..uni has the potential to open doors for her. If they think she’d be a good full time employee now, and she stays with them PT while in uni, then she’d be up for or first FT opening after graduation if no other opportunities arise. This FT job is not a now or never opportunity. Neither is uni, but statistically degreed people have higher lifetime earnings than nondegreed.

"Neither is uni, but statistically degreed people have higher lifetime earnings than nondegreed."

It does depend on the degree, but as I've said, it's not all about earning potential anyway.

@Gwenhwyfar

"Neither is uni, but statistically degreed people have higher lifetime earnings than nondegreed."

It does depend on the degree, but as I've said, it's not all about earning potential anyway.

Yes it’s not all about earning potential, but at least with a degree you have more choices than without a degree. Also, there is job qualification inflation that has been going on for decades and is only getting worse. Since the 1990s many jobs that did not historically require a degree, now do require one- eg. Police officer, nurse, office manager. And the jobs that required a Bachelors degree, no require post graduate degrees. I’ve seen this all my career. And the trend shows no sign of stopping for future generations which is one reason why the U.K. now has postgraduate student loans. For a young person today to deliberately turn down the opportunity for any degree is short sighted in my opinion.

As someone who went to uni, I would suggest deferring for a year, then decide. The downside to uni is the years worth of debt, and your daughter is correct, many go to college and end up in admin jobs

I’m supporting a young person in a similar position. Has offers from all uni choices, top, top unis, for an academic subject. But is considered turning them down. Earns well now—age 21. Is very torn, as has another non-uni route career they ideally wish to go on.

just because you have a degree is doesn't mean you will get a better job/wage especially straight after qualifying
go for the job and defer uni , make sure the training is in a recognized system that can be used for other jobs

ForwardRanger

Bythemillpond

JournalistEmily

But £25k is as far as it goes
Great when you are 21 but 31,41,51 without any other experience and it isn’t that great

There's no obligation foe the girl to stay in the job for the rest of her life. She could be on £25k at 21 then moving on and steadily up. It's a terrific start. Fgs some of you have very small imaginations. Can only guess none of you have earned when young

As her mother says she will feel duty bound to stay because she likes the family so would end up stuck.

daisypond

If someone knows what they want to do and it doesn’t involve a degree I wouldn’t bother with uni.

You're a long time working. I wouldn't rush into it. I'd advise her to have the uni experience and then there will be many, many years of work afterwards.

Take the job. Media Studies is a joke degree anyway.

If she hotly debates my previous answer, and has good plans about where such a degree will lead, listen to her.

Firstly all of you saying Media is not a good subject, you’re wrong it’s awesome and all degrees have lots of transferable skills. I built a career in media without a degree but trust me more doors and options would have been open to me if I’d had a media degree, alas the 5 degrees I hold are all in other subjects.

Now, it’s also worth bearing in mind that any undergrad degree will give you the footing to do a Masters degree or post graduate qualifications (yes I have those too) in most other subjects.

Next and what I probably should have said first is seriously good on her for getting real experience and already working in a proper workplace role. This combined with a degree would put her at a great advantage once she’s completed her studies.

And finally, how about she demonstrates some initiative by having a chat with her employer and asking if there is any possibility of increasing her work hours but not quite to full time to allow her to attend lectures etc. Remember those transferable skills I mentioned earlier, well her employer would be gaining from her achieving those and would be benefitting from an all round more educated and qualified employee. Obviously they would only be expected to pay her for the hours she actually works and this will be hard going, but a combination of degree and work experience in an actual ongoing role is what is missing from the current education set up. Work role plus degree is the winning formula on the CV trust me!

Yes, she may leave the job after her 3 years at Uni and on getting her qualification but they still will have benefited from a higher educated and more skilled employee during this time. People don’t usually stay in job roles or with the same employer for more and few years these days so even if she didn’t get the degree there’s a high chance three years on she be moving on work wise anyway.

It really would be worth talking to her employer to see if something can be worked out. All students need some kind of job alongside doing their degree and it is so much better if it’s a decent ongoing role rather than temping here or there or just working in a job they don’t care about just to get by.

Try to find a way to do both. Write off having any free time over the next three years but at the end of it she’ll be in a better position financially and at a HUGE advantage in terms of her career progression as well as her qualifications position.

One last thing, sadly a job for life no longer exists but a degree is something that you will have for life.

ForwardRanger

Bythemillpond
JournalistEmily
But £25k is as far as it goes
Great when you are 21 but 31,41,51 without any other experience and it isn’t that great

There's no obligation foe the girl to stay in the job for the rest of her life. She could be on £25k at 21 then moving on and steadily up. It's a terrific start. Fgs some of you have very small imaginations. Can only guess none of you have earned when young

I think her mother is worried that if she does take the job she is the sort of person who will feel obligated to stay as she likes the family. So could end up stuck.

Even if she left after a few years she would then be up against the graduates who companies might look at and see more potential in. Without a degree there is a ceiling in a lot of companies to how far she could rise. Even so it isn’t exactly what she wants to do.

I think both options aren’t exactly what she wants or needs. I wonder whether the staying at home to go to university has limited her choice of degrees and she needs to fly the nest in order to do a degree that would be more useful in her life. I get the impression that Media is something that wasn’t her first choice but more the best option in her local university

If the job was in something that she wanted to do long term then there would not be an issue.

The things she wants to do though do in some cases not need a degree. So why not take a year to really hone what it is she wants to do.

I went to a very good uni, and if I had my time again, I wouldn't.

The debt you are left with is astronomical. I have watched my friends who didn't go to the uni get on the property ladder, whilst it took me into my 30s to repay my student loan.

I also wonder about the whole 'those with degrees earn more' stat. Partly because I suspect that if you have the capability for higher study, you probably also have the ability to perform well at work.

It's so hard to get onto the property ladder now, and my degree has felt like a burden. I regret it hugely and feel my life would be in a very different place if I'd started work 4 years earlier, and my salary wasn't deducted a large chunk for my loan each month.

Also - I have seen a real move in my sector (heritage) to move away from asking for degree qualifications for a role.

There is a huge desire to be more inclusive and to recognise that it's not the individual's 'fault' if they didn't have the means to go to university.

Job descriptions and specifications are now much more focussed on your ability to perform specific tasks, rather than an arbitrary length of service or degree.

I deferred for three years and went to Uni when I was 21. I was by no means the oldest on my course and didn't feel particularly "old" compared to the rest of my cohort..... University is full of all sorts of people.

In her circumstances I would take the job with a view to going to University in a year or two. There's no guarantee that she will get a normal university experience with Covid restrictions being lifted by September. I came out of Uni and struggled to get a job because I hadn't done a vocational course, despite having a First from a top 10 Uni. Lots of my cohort experienced the same and we don't know what the job market/economy is going to be doing when she comes out of Uni, work experience will stand her in good stead.

The major benefit of University for me was moving away from home and learning to live independently, discovering a new city. If she was going away to University or doing a course with a defined career path I'd feel differently but in her shoes I'd take the job and review in a year or so.

@therearenogoodusernamesleft

Also - I have seen a real move in my sector (heritage) to move away from asking for degree qualifications for a role.

There is a huge desire to be more inclusive and to recognise that it's not the individual's 'fault' if they didn't have the means to go to university.

Job descriptions and specifications are now much more focussed on your ability to perform specific tasks, rather than an arbitrary length of service or degree.

Yes. I agree. I work in media and there is a big push on diversity and inclusion in underrepresented groups- and that includes non-graduates - to hire and mentor those who did not go to university.

Go to university!!!! Insane not to. There will be other admin jobs, omg!! This isn’t a dilemma it’s a total no brainer!

I thought I was the only one thinking this. It’s hardly an opportunity of a lifetime. I’d not even be entertaining taking the job

Go to university!!!! Insane not to. There will be other admin jobs, omg!! This isn’t a dilemma it’s a total no brainer!

I disagree. I’d not even be entertaining going to university in these circumstances.

University isn't the same at the moment. Defer for a year, take the job and see how things are next year. She could have some money behind her and it'll all be a bit clearer.

Take the job, defer for a year and get some money behind her. I only say this as she is not sure herself.

To be honest I think the mass push of
Young people to university with all the debt that entails is wrong. Many many professions are promoting the apprenticeshiproute now so it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I think commercialisation of our education institutions whilst giving wider access was fundamentally wrong. You shouldn't need a degree for an admin job. Your daughter needs to consider what she actually wants to do with her life and put the steps in place to make that happen.

therearenogoodusernamesleft

I have said this before on threads about young people not being able to buy a house or flat.
The people I know through dc it is the ones that went to university that seem to struggle much more than the ones that left school at 16.
I know a few of their friends who by the age of 21 already have a good job, children, a partner/spouse and a mortgage. One of her older friends who is late 20s has paid off his mortgage and will have paid of his business premises mortgage in a couple of years.

What I have found is the ones that did ECAs and turned a particular activity into a career or the ones that went to college and did an apprenticeship in something practical have fared better than the ones who went down the academic route with GCSEs and A levels and a degree.
Whilst going to university might earn you more I wonder overall whether this takes into account the cost of university and the extra rent and increase in property prices, mortgage payments etc over a life time and other expenses that come with waiting 5 years to start work.