Big dilemma for DD - what would you do?

[Blackenedsoul]

DD has accepted an offer for her Uni of choice to study Media in September. She’s been looking forward to going, had planned to live at home and travel the 20 minutes in every day.

She had a part time job for a few months in a local office attached to a very small but very busy manufacturing company. She’s very well thought of and works in the office on a Saturday, doing admin, answering enquiries, emails, booking appointments etc.

Today they’ve offered her a full time, permanent post in the office and have offered to start training her up in the use of their accounts systems etc, give her more responsibility. The salary is 18k to start rising to around a max of 25k once fully trained.

This has come as a bolt from the blue, DD really enjoys the job and thinks she’d be happy doing it full time but at the same time was also happy to go off and have the Uni experience, make new friends and study and have fun.

She’s aware that lots of students leave Uni and end up falling into admin roles vey much like this and is now wondering whether bothering with Uni is worth it.

We’ve told her the decision is entirely hers but she’s really finding it hard to decide.

So, the great of mumsnet - what would you do?

What exactly is she being offered? Is it concrete? It sounds vague.
She doesn't want to do Accountancy you said. I wouldn't accept their offer of say only an AAT. I'd want an offer of ACCA, so I was a qualified accountant. Or a similar standing qualification. But she's not interested in that. So no offer would stop me going to Uni.

But uni now might not be best. Tonnes of debt? Online learning in your bedroom? Not being on campus. No new friends. No. thanks.

But, I was the last year to have uni fees, no £9k. I didn't even take a student loan because I had part time jobs. Breaks my heart to see what you get for your 'uni experience' these days,

At a Uni talk I went to with my daughter, the Vice Chancellor said, ‘ you must have passion for your subject, you are committing 3 years and a lot of money to do it.’
My daughter was a bit like yours, changed her mind loads about what subject she wanted to do, settled on one. In the meantime, she applied for loads of degree apprenticeships. Covid struck and we bigged up uni again, only to get an interview at the last minute for a huge company. She got the apprenticeship, like your daughter she is a hard worker and slotted quickly into the business. It has been mostly online so far. She has day release for a business related degree. All paid for. £19k a year salary with huge potential.
My point is, she loves it. My gut feeling is she wouldn’t have loved uni as she never had the passion for the subject she chose in the first place. Has your daughter looked into this at all? She sounds like an ideal candidate for one! They have started interviewing for Sep starts now.

"I have said this before on threads about young people not being able to buy a house or flat.
The people I know through dc it is the ones that went to university that seem to struggle much more than the ones that left school at 16."

I'd like to see proper stats on that rather than just your DC's friends. Paying off your mortgage by late twenties isn't the norm for anyone is it?

I think her mother is worried

If I had had a £1 for everything my mother worried about, I would be so rich I wouldn't need a job.

I don't understand why comparisons are being drawn between uni and leaving school at 16 as though those are the only options.

I know uni is eye-wateringly expensive these days but there are some disturbingly anti-education sentiments coming out of this thread, if you ask me. At this stage it wouldn't surprise me if someone came on and started extolling the virtues of attending the 'School of Life' followed by the 'University of Hard Knocks'.

University is way more than job training. It's also about expanding horizons in ways that imho just don't tend to happen as easily outside of higher education. It depresses me the way some people these days seem to see it as nothing more than a three-year training course.

University is way more than job training. It's also about expanding horizons in ways that imho just don't tend to happen as easily outside of higher education.

But that’s not happening at the moment. There’s little expansion of horizons going on. No socialising, no lectures or tutorials, no libraries, no societies, no events. My DD is in her third year, and only year 1 was completely normal.

"I know uni is eye-wateringly expensive these days but there are some disturbingly anti-education sentiments coming out of this thread, if you ask me. At this stage it wouldn't surprise me if someone came on and started extolling the virtues of attending the 'School of Life' followed by the 'University of Hard Knocks'. hmm"

Hypocritical as well because I think most of the posters giving this advice have been to university themselves.

"But that’s not happening at the moment. There’s little expansion of horizons going on. No socialising, no lectures or tutorials, no libraries, no societies, no events. My DD is in her third year, and only year 1 was completely normal."

It won't be like that forever will it?
What are the plans for next year?

It won't be like that forever will it?
What are the plans for next year?

Next year won’t be normal either, which is why many posters are saying to defer a year. That way, there’s nothing to lose.

"Next year won’t be normal either, which is why many posters are saying to defer a year. That way, there’s nothing to lose."

As long as she doesn't get used to earning and she really does go the following year.

I agree the anti-education sentiment on this thread is disturbing. Statistically, the best way to financial security and social mobility upwards is through getting a degree. Yes some without degrees do become very successful, but they are the exception to the rule. Yes some with degrees do appallingly badly, but again they are the exception to the rule. The studies on social mobility and how it is linked to advanced/higher education are there for everyone to google. So anecdotes about friends children who have done good by leaving school at 16 aren’t relevant really. For one, it’s not the norm, hasn’t been since the boomer generation and secondly, today’s 16-18yrs old are already a generation later than these rare “my friends DCs” (in their 30s) success stories.

I also think it’s a mistake to defer University due to Covid/less in person lectures unless your degree requires practical hands on training. The job market is terrible for under 25s right now, as well as the U.K. having a lower minimum wage for that age group, and during times of high unemployment, insecure jobs, and low wages it is generally better to stay in education and then hit a recovered job market a few years later with advanced qualifications that advantage you over your peers who were probably in and out of work due to Covid.

In addition, most employers I know when interviewing those who have been put out of work by Covid are asking the question- what did you do while unemployed? And expecting an answer that the person went and did a new qualification...something that shows work ethic and that you weren’t just binging on Netflix and crying into your pillow while collecting unemployment benefits.

Degree apprenticeships I count as going to University by the way...because at the end of the program you walk away with a degree.

I don't think it is anti-education, it's more that posters think that an apprenticeship would be more valuable.

If the degree was more academic or vocational, the sentiment might be quite different.

@ILoveShula

I don't think it is anti-education, it's more that posters think that an apprenticeship would be more valuable.

If the degree was more academic or vocational, the sentiment might be quite different.

It's not because she's not being offered an apprenticeship.

"I agree the anti-education sentiment on this thread is disturbing. Statistically, the best way to financial security and social mobility upwards is through getting a degree. Yes some without degrees do become very successful, but they are the exception to the rule. Yes some with degrees do appallingly badly, but again they are the exception to the rule."

I don't think doing badly (if by that you mean doing a routine low-paid job) is an exception to the rule for certain degrees. At least a few years ago, the stats showed that arts graduates didn't earn more than people with A Levels.
We used to have a joke when I was young:
"What do you say to an arts graduate with a job?) (i.e. any arts/humanities subject not Art itself)
"2 big macs and fries please"
and call centres are full of graduates.

I am myself one of these people, doing a routine job. However, I'd rather be doing a routine job and have a degree than not have one and always be regretting missing out on the education and the young student experience.

It's not like she's being offered anything phenomenal from this company either.

Lots in this thread saying 25k isn’t a great salary. But most people I know with humanities degrees earn that, or just a bit more. I don’t know anyone who earns more than 35k in their 40s or 50s. And that’s in London. Unless they go into teaching. And that is the big advantage of a degree - you can turn it into a PGCE, for example, as postgrad level.

No, she's not Gwenhwyfar. My reasoning is that a Media degree is rightly or wrongly not considered the best, and work experience and a degree is going to put her in good stead for her future, especially when many graduates have no experience. A year out at this stage could give her time to work out what she wanted to do.

It’s not anti-education at all. It’s anti-media studies degree, fgs! And at this particular junction in these particular circumstances.

Sorry but unless you’ve got a particular passion for, interest in or specific career progression plans in the sector, a media degree because you don’t yet know what you want to do is a ridiculous waste of a university education! It’s not going to broaden your horizons all that much, and you’re not even going to get the full student experience right now to make it worth it from that perspective.

I’m very much for higher education in general. But I absolutely do not believe every 18 year old should go ‘just because,’ and that’s even more so the case this year.

@daisypond

Lots in this thread saying 25k isn’t a great salary. But most people I know with humanities degrees earn that, or just a bit more. I don’t know anyone who earns more than 35k in their 40s or 50s. And that’s in London. Unless they go into teaching. And that is the big advantage of a degree - you can turn it into a PGCE, for example, as postgrad level.

Yes, so it makes little difference financially whether she goes to uni or not, but education has its own value. It's worth doing anyway.

"It’s not anti-education at all. It’s anti-media studies degree, fgs! "

Which is quite snobby.
Yes, it doesn't tend to lead to high earnings, but that's true of many degrees. Do you only approve of STEM? OP's DD may not be talented at the most high earning subjects. Should she therefore miss out on the university experience that her friends will be getting?

No it’s not snobby. It’s realistic. Not all degrees are created equal by any means. In a year or two or three OP’s daughter might actually know what she’s interested in doing, and would quite possibly need a specific degree to facilitate it. Wasting her one chance at higher education on what’s often (not always, but often) a Mickey Mouse degree, and on top of it one that many, many prospective graduate employers would take as a bad sign, is just stupid.

As for whether or not a media studies degree can ever be considered something that will broaden one’s horizons, well, I suppose it depends on how one defines the term but using my definition I’m quite happy to admit that I am pretty ‘snobby’ (if you want to characterise it as such) about that. I think it’s a ridiculous waste of money, time, and effort unless you are actually going to be able to do something with it afterwards. At least in normal times there’d be the ‘full student experience’ counting as a very strong pro but that will not be the case at this time.

Stick with the job. Media graduates are ten a penny, sorry but it's true, and there just aren't the jobs. In this day and age an opportunity like this won't come around often.

She can go on to get fully qualified as an accountant by part time study if she wants to and then she'll start to earn serious money. Besides, again sorry to be a wet blanket but, in all honesty, she's not actually going to get, "the uni experience" if she lives at home, and it's not always all it's cracked up to be either. All three of my children went on to tertiary education but only one's career couldn't have got off the ground without it and one absolutely hated it and truly wished she'd never bothered. Also, she'll be saddled with an extra tax burden unless you can afford to fully fund her?

It's a no brainer for me. If she wasn't enjoying the job then fair enough but...

100% Uni.

At her age she should be opening doors for herself, not settling for a maximum of £25k.

Besides, again sorry to be a wet blanket but, in all honesty, she's not actually going to get, "the uni experience" if she lives at home, and it's not always all it's cracked up to be either.

Yes. I had meant to say that too. Both of those points are strong considerations.

It is ludicrous to claim that it is always in their best interests for 18 year olds to just pick a subject, any subject, and go off to uni just for the sake of it. That simply is not the case.

Defer for a year and take the job. Definitely. If she likes accounts she could then consider becoming an accountant and would have real world experience.