ADs drinking al fresco at The Sleeping Swans

[BogRollBOGOF]

ADs, grab your thermals, long johns and winter woolies, we're finally off to drown our sorrows at the Sleeping Swan!

I've always been a tactical voter so often vote differently locally and nationally on the same day. For context, I'm in a safe seat where it makes little difference anyway. Locally, I'm less driven by the national state of the party and more by recent performance of the local groups. Labour in the austerity years were particularly awful for whinging about government, splurging on white elephant schemes, short-sighted cuts ( e.g. cutting recycling bins resulting in greater landfill charges than the savings) and wasting vast sums on consultations for huge schemes for which the budgets didn't exist or mismanaging and being vastly delayed and over budget. Nice areas like mine lost all neighbourhood funding. There is actually a fair bit of social housing through the neighbourhood, usually with tiny shoebox gardens so having zero budget to enable things like passable paths in the park through the winter, or being stuck with one small, dull toddler play area for the whole community does take a toll. Other neighbourjoods have more complex priorities, but all areas need some level of investment.
Since Labour lost control and other parties have worked together, we have slowly moved forwards and some progress is now showing.

I tend to quite like coalitions and multi-party working. There is some degree of selling out/ compromising but it tends to have a more open minded, centralising effect.

Nationally the Lib Dems were hammered for the coalition years, but they did soften policy and they did have some influences that softened the blow of austerity. I'm sure a Conservative majority would have been more painful.
I just wish they'd remember what a woman is!

Forgive me ADs for I have disinfected my shopping bag... well sort of... it did end up containing soggy clorinated swimming kit

@BogRollBOGOF

Forgive me ADs for I have disinfected my shopping bag... well sort of... it did end up containing soggy clorinated swimming kit

Oh you have reminded me when I used the hessian bags I would sling them in the washing machine coz when the bags first came out we were told to give them a clean, dripping chicken etc. I never do now. I use the plastic Lidl ones, I really ought to give them a wipe over tomorrow. They have been around for months. So I am more likely to get food poisoning than covid haha.

Bumped into an old boy outside chemists today, known him 40 odd years he is nearly 80 now. His wife is in hospital has been for six weeks awaiting a transfer to an english hospital for a heart op. She has been in a room on her own all this time. He visits now and again when allowed but has to speak to her through a door. They have both had the jab ages ago. It is a bloody disgrace, not one covid inpatient there now.

@justasking111

Bumped into an old boy outside chemists today, known him 40 odd years he is nearly 80 now. His wife is in hospital has been for six weeks awaiting a transfer to an english hospital for a heart op. She has been in a room on her own all this time. He visits now and again when allowed but has to speak to her through a door. They have both had the jab ages ago. It is a bloody disgrace, not one covid inpatient there now.

This sort of thing is inhumane. If the hospital want to be really cautious, they could test him every day before he visits, but it's awful to separate a couple like this.

Is anyone here in Scotland? Any idea on what is likely to be allowed wedding wise by August? We are at the point of needing to book accommodation/transport for a friend’s wedding that has been postponed from last year.

We are unsure whether to offer to drop out if numbers are likely to be limited, as we don’t want them to feel awkward telling us, but if that is likely to happen we don’t want to book anything and lose deposits etc.

It feels like even with the easing next week in England things are not going to be normal for a long time ☹️

I don't see the point in much of the gratuitous mass testing, but can see a purpose in using it to ease restrictions in places like hospitals which are likely places for super-spread even though most staff and most vulnerable people are vaccinated, often fully.

There's an AUBU connected to birth trauma and what would have been a very distressing experience anyway, but aggravated by the isolation of barely being allowed a partner to support and advocate and the impact on things like HV services.
The NHS has been left in a shocking state and it's not all about the peaks of the waves. Far more could have been done May/ June- Sept last year.

. Far more could have been done May/ June- Sept last year
YES. But it wasnt. Because they now know they can use lockdown as a default setting.

Sorry Didnt mean it to look like i was shouting.

Yup,instead of figuring out how to make the NHS fit for purpose, and how to implement barrier/protective nursing in care homes, it’s much easier and cheaper to frighten people into accepting lockdown.

I love this article, hits the nail on the head
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/04/19/well/mind/covid-mental-health-languishing.amp.html
It's on another thread in chat.
Languishing.
Totally.

@BogRollBOGOF

I love this article, hits the nail on the head www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/04/19/well/mind/covid-mental-health-languishing.amp.html It's on another thread in chat. Languishing. Totally.

I was reading the other thread last night. Totally sums up how I'm feeling at the moment.

Why, though? Why is it not worth doing the work to make the NHS fit for purpose?

I don't know if funding is the answer. That's what everyone says 'It's underfunded! That's what's wrong!' but no one ever says how much would be sufficient or what a supposed properly funded NHS would look like.

You are all a bunch of intelligent, thoughtful women. Any ideas?

@ISaySteadyOn

Why, though? Why is it not worth doing the work to make the NHS fit for purpose?

I don't know if funding is the answer. That's what everyone says 'It's underfunded! That's what's wrong!' but no one ever says how much would be sufficient or what a supposed properly funded NHS would look like.

You are all a bunch of intelligent, thoughtful women. Any ideas?

I'll start with what will probably be the least popular suggestion - move to state funded insurance model, which is what much of the world has (almost all of Europe, Australia, Canada, and some others, and I suspect the USA will eventually catch up, though it'll take a while). Not perfect, of course, but I've known a number of Europeans living in the UK and they're all unanimous that our system is worse (with the exception of one guy from Russia, who said their system is very corrupt). This model means that the government is funding your treatment (sometimes with nominal top ups, which are waived for those on low incomes) but you get, within reason, to choose who treats you where.

@ISaySteadyOn

Why, though? Why is it not worth doing the work to make the NHS fit for purpose?

I don't know if funding is the answer. That's what everyone says 'It's underfunded! That's what's wrong!' but no one ever says how much would be sufficient or what a supposed properly funded NHS would look like.

You are all a bunch of intelligent, thoughtful women. Any ideas?

I am sure it is underfunded, however i am also sure that a looooot of money is wasted. On various things.

One small example is - you try and order something that is £70 online and it costs you £180 from the only supplier you are allowed to use.

That happens a lot in my small office, and i imagine a lot on a wider scale - so imagine that across the whole UK

and we have managers and managers and managers - probably unneccesarily. we have staff who's jobs shouldn't exist anymore. They are strict about hours for some posts, and then others are literally sat for 30 hours a week doing nothing waiting for the phone to ring.

They could find some funds within all that shite, i am certain.

The problem I've had and my DM too is that you see a lot of people who tell you what you haven't got, but there's a lack of coordination to tell you what you have when it potentially falls between disciplines and it's unlikely to kill you in the next few days. Each time you have to loop back round to your GP, and get put on another months' long waiting list, and in the meantime you might develop new problems caused by your original issue (e.g. not being able to exercise or work). Better coordination at consultant level would help with that instead of just being sent away to try again somewhere else.

When I worked as a nurse in the 70s and 80s it was top heavy then. Too many chiefs and not enough minions and I think it has only got worse since then. I worked in the NHS as part of a community programme in the 2000s and again thee were so many people working so hard but the higher up you got the less work some of them did (or even had to do).

There was a big national banding review and all managers got increases whereas those lower down had their jobs downgraded (pay downgraded for new starters).

There -is- was so much wastage.

I think a big problem is getting people with the right skills into management. You have great clinicians who make crap managers and then good managers who haven't got a clue - and little if any chance of get rid of dead wood. There are some who are great but not enough.

I think anyone applying for any NHS job (above clerical level) should have to work 3 months as a health care assistant first - although that, of course, would put off many good people. Even a month would give them a greater understanding, so long as no one knew they were management and they got treated the same as anyone else.

When I worked at the nhs, we had the lack of supplier choice mentioned. I also had to print off 6 copies of each order, and then file four of them in different folders, which were then placed on the same shelf next to each other. I thought it was a joke the first time I was asked to do this. Since then the nhs has discovered computers but it’s only recently that these computers are able to talk to each other.

I do think that because of the lack of resource (not just money, but time, will etc.) a ‘sticking plaster’ approach is used. So if you go to the doctor for eg back pain, painkillers are given as the first choice instead of looking for the root of the issue. (This may depend on your individual doctor).

A young relative is regularly at the doctors for health issues, all related to her obesity, yet the GP has not once mentioned her seeking counselling for her food issues. My brother, also with weight related health issues, said he would not take advice from a nurse because she was overweight too!

Ultimately I think a three pronged approach, better national health, better resourcing, and less of a sticking plaster/more holistic approach would be good.

On a personal note, I am told I am at higher risk of heart issues, bu as my diet and exercise are all very good, I am not offered any further help because such investigations are expensive, so unless I have a coronary or stroke, nothing will be done.

Perhaps we should rename it the National Crisis Service?

When I worked at the nhs, we had the lack of supplier choice mentioned. I also had to print off 6 copies of each order, and then file four of them in different folders, which were then placed on the same shelf next to each other. I thought it was a joke the first time I was asked to do this. Since then the nhs has discovered computers but it’s only recently that these computers are able to talk to each other.

I do think that because of the lack of resource (not just money, but time, will etc.) a ‘sticking plaster’ approach is used. So if you go to the doctor for eg back pain, painkillers are given as the first choice instead of looking for the root of the issue. (This may depend on your individual doctor).

A young relative is regularly at the doctors for health issues, all related to her obesity, yet the GP has not once mentioned her seeking counselling for her food issues. My brother, also with weight related health issues, said he would not take advice from a nurse because she was overweight too!

Ultimately I think a three pronged approach, better national health, better resourcing, and less of a sticking plaster/more holistic approach would be good.

On a personal note, I am told I am at higher risk of heart issues, bu as my diet and exercise are all very good, I am not offered any further help because such investigations are expensive, so unless I have a coronary or stroke, nothing will be done.

Perhaps we should rename it the National Crisis Service?

I did admin in the NHS many years ago, and around the millenium it was all pretty archaic. Clinic lists on green paper with the tracks through the dot matrix printer... I used to have to manually seperate them and fold in a certain way.

There is too much emphisis on GPs as gatekeepers and passing around the system in order to skip around the target waiting times culture. I'm sure that a lot could be done to get people direct to the specialists that they need, particularly for recurring care needs. That would free up GPs for general community care.

After DS1 I got stuck with my discharge. They were too busy to sign off my discharge, which of course creates more pressure by occupying a bed that needs care. I wonder if there could be some way of streamlining that, particularly in areas such as maternity where there is routine community follow-up.

Routine care is also so easily derailed by emergency developments. I wonder if it ii s spossible to segregate them more. Staffing is clearly a major isdsue
interms of cost and existence!

Sorry abiut the spelling, my keyboard/ cursor ghave gione beserk and JI can't correct it!

I suspect that for many branches of care, super-hospitals were a bad idea. Good for specialist issues and critical care, but too remote, vast and complex for routine, straightforward issues

I agree. Much of the time we are not able to refer to a specialist for something that is not our dept. Has to go back to the gp and then elsewhere. Doesn't seem sensible when I could literally email said dept and say oh Mrs Williams have X issue identified in x appt can you take her on.

I think we almost forget all doctors are doctors and yes they all have specialities but they all have the same basic knowledge for obvious conditions as in they will know as well as a gp where a patient needs reffering to.

Love my job but find it infuriating all the hoops we have to jump through.

I worked for our local NHS trust when the first PFI hospitals were being build. Our town went from a large central hospital supported by smaller more specialist units to a 400 bed single site which now serves a town of nearly 300k inhabitants. The rationales at the time were improvements in treatments and rapid discharge of elderly patients into care homes or home with support packages in place.

Of course the care side never happened and we were constantly trying to juggle so called bed blockers around to create space.

Also, as much as I hate to say it, incompetency. My 94 year old very independent Nan was admitted for minor surgery. She was dropped by staff moving her from her bed to a chair. Multiple injuries including partial degloving of her lower leg which was “fixed” with steri strips! She was hospitalised for 16 weeks and now needs carers 3x a day. That’s not the only issue with care involving family members but probably had the most impact on the NHS.

Plus as others have mentioned, purchasing and admin.

Would smaller hospitals also have helped with containing COVID better as well perhaps.

It was great overtime pay if you could nab working out of hours in an initiative clinic when New Labour threw money at the waiting lists. Shame they didn't stay down for many years.

There I am probably up there with the Anti-Christ with some on the other side when actually I'm former NHS AND teacher. That's like a double angle

And hey, it might have been low grade admin, but without someone rumaging through the consultants' offices amongst the old coffee cups to find the notes that hadn't been recorded properly into the notebooks to keep track, there would have been no clinics. I did sit clinics and reception too. It was interesting getting all over the place.