The Yorkshire shepherdess and the snowflake generation

[Marcia1989]

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9438725/Our-Yorkshire-Farm-star-Amanda-Owen-gave-birth-eighth-child-husband-ASLEEP-upstairs.html

Sorry for link to the Daily Mail. It was the only non-paywalled article but her comments are also reported in The Times and The Telegraph.

She runs a sheep farm in a remote part of Yorkshire and has 9 kids. She thinks that parents do not raise their children to be sufficiently independent, to look after themselves. She didn't really do home-schooling with them because she doesn't want to be a helicopter parent - she expects them to just get on with it. She expects all the kids to help on the farm and they don't really do devices/TV etc. Having watched her TV series, I agree that her kids seem admirably self-sufficient and mature and I do think generally it's really good for children to have some responsibility. But, I do also wonder whether a lack of individual attention is detrimental to them. And there will be some kids who don't get on with it, and is it really right to just leave them to it?

What does everyone think?

[quote Frequentflier]@Veterinari I cannot be alone in thinking you are Amanda.[/quote]
Think what you like.

If the only reason you can create for someone challenging lies and prejudice against a successful women is that I must be that woman, then I guess we just have different perspectives on feminism.

We also have different definitions of success, I guess.

@mermaidsariel "that's your opinion". Yes, well spotted!

@Frequentflier

We also have different definitions of success, I guess.

I guess. I certainly wouldn't class someone who is financially successful, with a good marriage, and happy, well mannered, kind, children as unsuccessful.

But perhaps your criteria is narrower than mine

@Frequentflier

We also have different definitions of success, I guess.

I guess we do. The Owens are successful by my definition. Not least because my measure of success is wider than financial.

How on earth can anyone judge a marriage and the happiness of their children by what is shown on TV, I wonder. It's an edited reality show. A bit like claiming Kim Kardashian and Kanye West are soulmates.

@Frequentflier

How on earth can anyone judge a marriage and the happiness of their children by what is shown on TV, I wonder. It's an edited reality show. A bit like claiming Kim Kardashian and Kanye West are soulmates.

Well they seem to be reproducing fairly successfully

They work together and live together 24/7 on tv they are constantly courteous, kind and supportive of each other. Their children show no signs of discomfort or anxiety around them and are confident relaxed and well mannered.

They're either doing alright or they are 11 excellent actors

They're either doing alright or they are 11 excellent actors
Or you don't understand editing.

' the only reason you can create for someone challenging lies and prejudice against a successful women'

It isn't lies or prejudice to quote from her own articles.

Newsflash! she can flog their lifestyle and be a successful reality star without publicly voicing her blinkered opinion on 'youngsters' who are brought up differently. You seem to be trying to be making this into a misogyny thing when it isn’t.

She wants her kids running wild on a farm, cba to go to parents evenings lovely. Many want more as a parent.

@JaniieJones

'They DO take an interest in their schoolwork. She says she doesn’t get to parents evenings. That’s not the same thing'

She admitted herself they didn't bother with homeschooling in the pandemic and not going to parents evening does indeed show a lack of interest.

They can do as they please but their efforts aren't better than anyone else and I would suggest calling anyone snowflake is not helpful. They should not be so superior.

The programmes I saw showed the kids working round a table on iPads. They definitely were doing schoolwork.

@JaniieJones

' the only reason you can create for someone challenging lies and prejudice against a successful women'

It isn't lies or prejudice to quote from her own articles.

Newsflash! she can flog their lifestyle and be a successful reality star without publicly voicing her blinkered opinion on 'youngsters' who are brought up differently. You seem to be trying to be making this into a misogyny thing when it isn’t.

She wants her kids running wild on a farm, cba to go to parents evenings lovely. Many want more as a parent.

That's probably why I haven't challenged any of the quotes...

@choli

They're either doing alright or they are 11 excellent actors Or you don't understand editing.

You mean like taking a tiny part of what someone says and then using that to make assumptions about them? Nah! No idea

Ok then what is the evidence that they don't have a happy marriage?

Mine and my friends kids are a bit more "free range". We take them to the river and the woods every weekend and they just sort of do what they want with bits of stone and pen knives. Quite a few have quad bikes and they all play out a lot without a great deal of TV. I do think it's easier to be like that if you live in the countryside with animals. If you have a farm, frankly you don't have a lot of time to pander. It's also expectations though. My son's friend is 12 and can get his motorbike working again and he has learnt just by watching his dad (a mechanic) and messing with the bits and pieces for hours. In terms of homework, I'd like mine to be more autonomous but I see that as a slow process so that they are actually learning efficiently and correctly. I probably do coddle too much though. Basically I agree!

@Veterinari

You're coming across like AO's press secretary. Even if, given your job, and location, she's your bezzie, your defence of her is no more valid than other people's criticisms.

Anyway, in an article in one of the Yorkshire papers, she says she didn't follow the kids' homeschooling "as closely as I maybe ought to have" which doesn't mean they weren't doing it.

[quote Geamhradh]@Veterinari

You're coming across like AO's press secretary. Even if, given your job, and location, she's your bezzie, your defence of her is no more valid than other people's criticisms.

Anyway, in an article in one of the Yorkshire papers, she says she didn't follow the kids' homeschooling "as closely as I maybe ought to have" which doesn't mean they weren't doing it.[/quote]
You're entitled to your opinion - like everyone else 🤷‍♀️

Tbh If I was her PR I'd have advised against using the term 'snowflake' (I wonder if there's a job opening )

I actually think posters have raised some really valid issues - no that interview is not particularly pleasant, yes the depictions of H&S issues on the farm were irresponsible.

Does that make it ok to attack her looks, her work, her marriage and her children or invent things she's not said? I don't think so.
You are free to disagree

'I actually think posters have raised some really valid issues - no that interview is not particularly pleasant, yes the depictions of H&S issues on the farm were irresponsible.'

Yes if only she'd shown some intelligence, suggested there is more than one way to skin a cat and just because their dc are more outdoorsy this not mean they are any better than their peers. Just different upbringings that is all. Advantages and disadvantages to hands on and hands off parenting but no need for such smug Radio Times sermons.

I can't help but think that if Amanda was overweight and uglier and wore overalls rather than the clothes she chooses to wear, that the attitudes towards her would be very different
No doubt about it, add to that just how lax they were with homeschooling /not attending any school meetings. Anyone else would have been called all kind of names.

These types of thread show Mumsnet at its absolute worst. Why do they always become full of bitchy, jealous & narrow minded posters who just want to pick holes in other people. It's vile.

Why can't people recognise and acknowledge other people's success even if that success looks a bit different from our own?
Why do holes have to be picked and judgements made in such a nasty vile way?

From what I have seen of the Owens family they have brought up (or are bringing up) 9 well rounded children in a good healthy environment and with a brilliant work ethic.
Their eldest daughter is studying Biomedical Science at York university. Their eldest son has got himself a very competitive mechanic apprenticeship. The kids always seem happy and loved.

You are not kidding @Dobbyafreeelf

Some of the posts here are breathtaking!

@Dobbyafreeelf

These types of thread show Mumsnet at its absolute worst. Why do they always become full of bitchy, jealous & narrow minded posters who just want to pick holes in other people. It's vile.

Why can't people recognise and acknowledge other people's success even if that success looks a bit different from our own?
Why do holes have to be picked and judgements made in such a nasty vile way?

From what I have seen of the Owens family they have brought up (or are bringing up) 9 well rounded children in a good healthy environment and with a brilliant work ethic.
Their eldest daughter is studying Biomedical Science at York university. Their eldest son has got himself a very competitive mechanic apprenticeship. The kids always seem happy and loved.

Totally agree @Dobbyafreeelf

By the way thank you for you fire explanation earlier

'Why do they always become full of bitchy, jealous & narrow minded posters who just want to pick holes in other people. It's vile.'

The linked article wasn't just about their life as seen in their many reality programmes though. The point is as has been discussed they suggest that they are doing it right, Owen states in her Radio Times lecture that 'today's youngsters had no sense of independence or work ethic'. I strongly object to such sweeping crap.

She needs to carry on with her social media accounts and leave the 'youngster' analysis to others who may actually be in possession of statistics and evidence.

@Dobbyafreeelf

These types of thread show Mumsnet at its absolute worst. Why do they always become full of bitchy, jealous & narrow minded posters who just want to pick holes in other people. It's vile.

Why can't people recognise and acknowledge other people's success even if that success looks a bit different from our own?
Why do holes have to be picked and judgements made in such a nasty vile way?

From what I have seen of the Owens family they have brought up (or are bringing up) 9 well rounded children in a good healthy environment and with a brilliant work ethic.
Their eldest daughter is studying Biomedical Science at York university. Their eldest son has got himself a very competitive mechanic apprenticeship. The kids always seem happy and loved.

I totally agree.

This thread is women at their very worst - bitchy, & insecure.

And one poster who stands up for the woman - is accused of being her or her PR. It's a bit tragic really.

@JaniieJones

I strongly object to such sweeping crap

Why does it matter to you so much? Why take it so personally? Why get so wound up?

'This thread is women at their very worst - bitchy, & insecure.'

Don't be so misogynistic. 'Bitchy' is a word to shut up women.

There are valid point raised, why tf should she be allowed to make these awful generalisations about other 'youngsters' without anyone challenging it?!

I used to like them and read her books etc but it now just seems to me that Amanda is set to do what she wants and everyone else just has to toe the line. Raven was always described as "the one who looks after the children" and in the books it said that Amanda used to keep her off school to help her look after the youngest ones so that she could go up into the hills. Yes, they have a lovely looking life from the outside, but are they great parents? I don't think so. They say they don't encourage homework, extra curricular activities (a few of them playing brass instruments in one of the programmes was so staged) and one of their newborns had to stay in SCBU and the parents didn't even visit it for a week!

They are being prepared for a life of farming and nothing else. Which is fine if they want to do that but if they don't it seems tough luck. They have 8/9 kids in a 3 bed, with squalor conditions. If they were living in a council estate people's opinions about them would be very different!
Raven is definitely not doing medicine and she's not at York, IIRC she got 3 Cs.