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Original poster

The Yorkshire shepherdess and the snowflake generation

507 replies

Marcia1989 · 06/04/2021 17:19

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9438725/Our-Yorkshire-Farm-star-Amanda-Owen-gave-birth-eighth-child-husband-ASLEEP-upstairs.html

Sorry for link to the Daily Mail. It was the only non-paywalled article but her comments are also reported in The Times and The Telegraph.

She runs a sheep farm in a remote part of Yorkshire and has 9 kids. She thinks that parents do not raise their children to be sufficiently independent, to look after themselves. She didn't really do home-schooling with them because she doesn't want to be a helicopter parent - she expects them to just get on with it. She expects all the kids to help on the farm and they don't really do devices/TV etc. Having watched her TV series, I agree that her kids seem admirably self-sufficient and mature and I do think generally it's really good for children to have some responsibility. But, I do also wonder whether a lack of individual attention is detrimental to them. And there will be some kids who don't get on with it, and is it really right to just leave them to it?

What does everyone think?

OP posts:
mermaidsariel · 07/04/2021 11:59

@Alsohuman

Put them in an investment bank as a new grad and could they cope with 80 hour weeks?

Why would they have to? That would be a circle of hell for most people, let alone someone who grew up in beautiful rural surroundings. Hopefully they’ll do more useful things with their lives than make other people money.

YES!
Chicchicchicchiclana · 07/04/2021 12:06

She's had 9 children! NINE! this is where her values and mine diverge to the point where we could have nothing in common.

Choosing to have 9 children is completely selfish and irresponsible. Imo.

Alsohuman · 07/04/2021 12:08

@Chicchicchicchiclana

She's had 9 children! NINE! this is where her values and mine diverge to the point where we could have nothing in common.

Choosing to have 9 children is completely selfish and irresponsible. Imo.

Why? They can support them, they’re not living on benefits. What’s selfish and irresponsible about it? They seem to be doing a better job than a lot of parents with fewer children.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Families
SueSaid · 07/04/2021 12:10

'What I have done is point out a lot of the inaccuracies and judgment on this thread because I'm sick to death of successful women being criticised for their looks and lifestyle. If you think challenging inaccurate assumptions is unkind '

But it isnt inaccurate to suggest their parenting style is hands-off, show no interest in their school work (they themselves admit it) get them to do jobs and sell this as if it is some kind of parenting ideal. They are happy, great but they have no right to decide a generation are snowflakes because others do things very differently to them.

Chicchicchicchiclana · 07/04/2021 12:14

Have you heard of over population? Confused. The planet cannot sustain the people it has, let alone the number of people it would have if everyone who has easy access to contraception chose to have 9 children.

Frequentflier · 07/04/2021 12:14

I really wonder if women with nine children in India or Africa are viewed with as much sympathy. I do not think so. They seem to be the targets of many rants on the overpopulation of the world, not least from Prince William.

mermaidsariel · 07/04/2021 12:16

@Chicchicchicchiclana

She's had 9 children! NINE! this is where her values and mine diverge to the point where we could have nothing in common.

Choosing to have 9 children is completely selfish and irresponsible. Imo.

That’s your opinion
mermaidsariel · 07/04/2021 12:17

@JaniieJones

'What I have done is point out a lot of the inaccuracies and judgment on this thread because I'm sick to death of successful women being criticised for their looks and lifestyle. If you think challenging inaccurate assumptions is unkind '

But it isnt inaccurate to suggest their parenting style is hands-off, show no interest in their school work (they themselves admit it) get them to do jobs and sell this as if it is some kind of parenting ideal. They are happy, great but they have no right to decide a generation are snowflakes because others do things very differently to them.

They DO take an interest in their schoolwork. She says she doesn’t get to parents evenings. That’s not the same thing
Alsohuman · 07/04/2021 12:25

@Chicchicchicchiclana

Have you heard of over population? Confused. The planet cannot sustain the people it has, let alone the number of people it would have if everyone who has easy access to contraception chose to have 9 children.
But hardly anyone makes that choice, do they? Plenty of people choose not to have any children at all. The odd outlier like Owen makes fuck all difference.
SueSaid · 07/04/2021 12:26

'They DO take an interest in their schoolwork. She says she doesn’t get to parents evenings. That’s not the same thing'

She admitted herself they didn't bother with homeschooling in the pandemic and not going to parents evening does indeed show a lack of interest.

They can do as they please but their efforts aren't better than anyone else and I would suggest calling anyone snowflake is not helpful. They should not be so superior.

Dontforgetyourbrolly · 07/04/2021 12:26

Yay for her but most parents are not shepherds

Veterinari · 07/04/2021 12:32

@JaniieJones

'What I have done is point out a lot of the inaccuracies and judgment on this thread because I'm sick to death of successful women being criticised for their looks and lifestyle. If you think challenging inaccurate assumptions is unkind '

But it isnt inaccurate to suggest their parenting style is hands-off, show no interest in their school work (they themselves admit it) get them to do jobs and sell this as if it is some kind of parenting ideal. They are happy, great but they have no right to decide a generation are snowflakes because others do things very differently to them.

That's probably why a clearly said I disagree with her use of the term snowflake in a previous post.

It is entirely possible to disagree with someone without making stuff up to suit your own agenda and criticising her looks, financial motivations or children's capability

Veterinari · 07/04/2021 12:36

@Frequentflier

I really wonder if women with nine children in India or Africa are viewed with as much sympathy. I do not think so. They seem to be the targets of many rants on the overpopulation of the world, not least from Prince William.
Umm... I would assume that yes most people would have sympathy for poor women with limited access to contraception and significant cultural pressures.

Unless you're implying that PW's views are representative? Confused

Now I'd agree that he is a hypocrite

SecretCiderCellar · 07/04/2021 12:37

@mermaidsariel, she said in the interview quoted above that they only logged into homeschooling for 'about a week', after which they 'threw it back' to the children:

'Children have to be independent. I can't be a helicopter parent. We read the papers and they show me some of their projects, but I have yet to be at a single parents' evening. I did pretty poorly at my exams, but look at what I have achieved since then.'

That sounds pretty hands-off to me. Understandably, with, what, eight or nine children and running a big, remote farm, she doesn't have time to help her children with their schoolwork, but I think it's a bit much to present that as an admirable parenting philosophy, rather than a matter of pure expedience. She and her husband could have had far fewer children, and been able to combine the same farming with more individual attention to their children.

krustykittens · 07/04/2021 12:37

I think she has given her kids a lovely childhood and done a good job of raising well-rounded children. But I do have a problem with someone having nine kids they struggle to feed and clothe. In her books she talked about how hard it was to provide for the children because of how little the farm made. Why have nine, then? Poverty is a curse, not a virtue and I say that as someone who grew up poor. She had no idea she was going to be as successful as she was, so why keep having them? It's not in their interests, is it? She also said she wondered if her eldest daughter had done better at school if she had taken an interest in her education. Apart from teaching them how to farm so they could help out, the kids seem to be left to bring themselves up. She lives a pretty unique lifestyle, farming and living the way they do is pretty much disappearing, and it has its advantages. But it's not a life I would choose for my kids. We live rurally but are only an hour away from Edinburgh so they can take advantage of everything the city has to offer as well. Working on a farm or a small holding can teach you a lot but it is only one way of living. There is an awful lot going on in the world and if kids are not exposed to it, how do they know what they might be really passionate about, what talents they have outside the farm, what other ways of living are there? But I get the impression she doesn't want her kids to go too far from her.

zenasfuck · 07/04/2021 12:39

I can't help but think that if Amanda was overweight and uglier and wore overalls rather than the clothes she chooses to wear, that the attitudes towards her would be very different

She's beautiful, clever, hardworking - would I want 9 children? Not a chance in hell. Would I want a 24/365 job? Absolutely not
But Amanda does and she is clearly living her dream. I am always impressed at how patient and encouraging she is with her children

I only had one and that was difficult enough

DianeCherry · 07/04/2021 12:42

Well Amanda, if you're reading this, you have my support. I grew up (part time) on a Yorkshire hill farm. I was lambing sheep at maybe 5 or 6. I was off onto the fells by myself at 10 or 11 and frequently playing by myself around the farm much younger than that. I grew up watching the AI man come, and the knacker man come, teaching calves to feed from buckets, feeding the hens and bringing in the hay. I envy the life your kids have, and I wish there had been more of it in my life.

Keep doing what you're doing, you're an amazing woman who's made a success of your life and brought 9 fine kids into the world. Good on you. I'm off to buy your new book xx

SueSaid · 07/04/2021 12:44

'That's probably why a clearly said I disagree with her use of the term snowflake in a previous post.'

It isn't just about the term snowflake though is it. The whole article is full of drivel such as 'today's youngsters had 'no sense of independence' or work ethic'

Now that is a massive generalisation. I know many independent 'youngsters' with a great work ethic.

'What we do on the farm, hopefully, is preparation for the big world. The lessons they get here will stand them in good stead.'

She is just describing parenting. Everyone's circumstances are of course different but her sweeping and haughty views on what is good and what isn’t are really childish.

Frequentflier · 07/04/2021 12:49

@Veterinari Actually I have seen quite a few posts on MN talking about how it's fine to have large families because everyone in India and Africa is doing it.

You have made my point for me. She has access to contraception and no cultural pressures. But dress your kids in Boden and put them on TV, and you can have as many as you want, while sneering at other people's parenting, it seems.

Veterinari · 07/04/2021 12:51

@JaniieJones

'That's probably why a clearly said I disagree with her use of the term snowflake in a previous post.'

It isn't just about the term snowflake though is it. The whole article is full of drivel such as 'today's youngsters had 'no sense of independence' or work ethic'

Now that is a massive generalisation. I know many independent 'youngsters' with a great work ethic.

'What we do on the farm, hopefully, is preparation for the big world. The lessons they get here will stand them in good stead.'

She is just describing parenting. Everyone's circumstances are of course different but her sweeping and haughty views on what is good and what isn’t are really childish.

You seem to be trying to argue with me Confused

I haven't said I disagree with any of that. Just the making up of stuff she's not said, and criticising her looks, financial motivations, marriage and children

jessstan2 · 07/04/2021 12:51

Frequentflier

I really wonder if women with nine children in India or Africa are viewed with as much sympathy. I do not think so. They seem to be the targets of many rants on the overpopulation of the world, not least from Prince William.
...........

There's a big difference between people who can manage with a big family and those who can barely afford to eat. In some third world countries (& Africa is not all third world, it's a huge continent), contraception is not easily available and that is a service that needs all the aid it can get.

The Owens have a different sort of lifestyle to most of us but they have a decent business and certainly don't go hungry, even if it is hard work. There's no comparison really.

Veterinari · 07/04/2021 12:53

[quote Frequentflier]@Veterinari Actually I have seen quite a few posts on MN talking about how it's fine to have large families because everyone in India and Africa is doing it.

You have made my point for me. She has access to contraception and no cultural pressures. But dress your kids in Boden and put them on TV, and you can have as many as you want, while sneering at other people's parenting, it seems.[/quote]
You have made my point for me.
How exactly?

When all I've done is suggest that sympathy for one situation does not preclude sympathy for another?

Veterinari · 07/04/2021 12:54

And by sympathy I simply mean decency and understanding. Not pity.

Frequentflier · 07/04/2021 12:55

@jessstan2 Each of these children will have the carbon footprint of 10 African children, even if they live on a farm, so yes, there is a comparison. I am all in favour of contraception. It's just interesting who is advised to use it.

Frequentflier · 07/04/2021 12:56

@Veterinari I cannot be alone in thinking you are Amanda.