WWYD? Adult child does nothing

[babymanchild]

I've name changed and asking this to see if I can offer help to a relative in this situation.

Son is 23 and lives at home. Has never left.
No friends, no job, no life. Doesn't leave the house unless it's to get food.
Has had every opportunity but didn't do well at school because he flatly refused to go, refused to go and do his exams. Despite this and due to lots of help from others got a place at a good college but then didn't turn up, again refused to go.
Won't get out of bed.
He has had a few jobs, loses them because he won't get up and go. Through work connections of family has been offered apprenticeships, again stopped going and lost the position.

He's now 23 and does absolutely nothing and is claiming depression. He's been assessed and there was/ is no SEN.

His mother does everything for him but this is not because she wants to, he has no bank account, ID etc

His upbringing was pretty normal although single mother, dad not around. His mother worked full time and stayed single until he was 18.

He spends his days in his room and doesn't leave unless it's for food. His bedroom is revolting and is never cleaned. The house was decorated recently with plans for his room too but he wouldn't leave it or help to move anything so it was left.
His mother has been paying privately for therapy for nearly a year for his depression which is over the phone. This is because he won't see a doctor or book an appointment with a GP and she is not able to do it for him since he's an adult.
Nothing has changed, if anything it's worse but he says he likes speaking to the therapist. Mother doesn't know what they talk about as nothing is shared with her.

I could go on about what he is like but it's the same stuff. A 6ft 3 man child just existing in his bedroom with no life.
It's sad, frustrating and draining for everyone.
He will not do anything to help himself at all. The tough love approach has been done to death, it doesn't work. This has been going on since he was 13/14.
The WiFi removed as he spends his days gaming- nothing changed.

We can't see an end, we just want him to be happy but what can we do/try?

@Notagain20

I think at the very least I'd switch the WiFi off. He is likely living online, to the extent that he has any contact with the world it will be with gamers etc. Switch the WiFioff for a few weeks (his mum will have to use her phone I guess) and he will have to begin to engage with the world in small ways.

It's going to have to be tough love. He has no reason to change otherwise.

She doesn't have to switch it off, just change the password.

Oh yes, of course! Doh

Agreed, small steps with consequences then work upwards. The trick is the consequences and holding ones nerve.

When I come from it’s called parenting. Sorry. But it is.

But in this case with the entrenched dynamic given his age I would skip the small steps and move him out. I would give him three months notice and the option of him getting his shit together or getting help and taking on responsibility.

I'd get him signed up for a voluntary job to get him up and about again. Sounds like he has no friends? Take him to a local football match, ask if he can join. That could be why he sits in his bedroom with no motivation. Perhaps get him on a learning program that leads to a degree. Give him goals.

I don’t get all the ‘sign him up to X, Y, Z’ this does not work! Because people like this have been raised to expect to be (en)able(d) to drop out or avoid life. That’s how they end up like this!

If they were up for Princes Trust/employment/college there would not be a problem!

@LatentPhase

I don’t get all the ‘sign him up to X, Y, Z’ this does not work! Because people like this have been raised to expect to be (en)able(d) to drop out or avoid life. That’s how they end up like this!

If they were up for Princes Trust/employment/college there would not be a problem!

I agree. Friends of mine are furious that their teenager has been discharged from CAMHS but they had to because he absolutely point blank refuses to engage with anyone and CAMHS have said they can't help someone who won't engage. He is just wasting a resource that someone else could benefit from.

That's the bottom line, there is no magic cure. This man is not going to engage because he doesn't need to. He has his mother providing everything he needs.

It also seems that she is happy with this too as she is doing nothing to change it so I would leave them to it OP. How does it affect you anyway?

I agree, none of this works with a person who won't engage. None of it. My son has PDA, not even the consequences work on him. None of it does. The only thing you can do is walk away.

@LatentPhase

I don’t get all the ‘sign him up to X, Y, Z’ this does not work! Because people like this have been raised to expect to be (en)able(d) to drop out or avoid life. That’s how they end up like this!

If they were up for Princes Trust/employment/college there would not be a problem!

Complete agree. Thinking of the person I know, his parents could sign him up for any range of things and he'd just refuse to go. He's not interested, how do you manhandle an over 6 foot man out of bed, get him dressed and out if the house? It's not like a reluctant toddler who can be coaxed with chocolate buttons. Princes Trust and volunteering are great - but can only help people who want help.

When you have someone who is so deep into this and so adamant that they will not engage and will not contribute in any way it's very difficult to break that cycle.

That happens a lot, Wallace, the participant won't engage and cannot be forced to do so.

If the only thing that gets him out of his room is food, make that the lure.

If he is left alone for 2 weeks with no food, just ingredients, plus simple cooking instructions - he will learn to cook something - he has no other choice. Stage 1 to independence. Cooking himself a meal will give him a powerful burst of self confidence. Use that to move forward to stage 2.

Sounds very much like a classmate from school. He is still at home and has never worked at almost 50.

@WallaceinAnderland
I've started this thread for ideas to help him. Do you actually have any or do you just want to pick holes in what I've said?

Tough love approach has happened in every way possible when he was younger. Every punishment and consequence. A male teacher used to attend his house every morning to get him to school because his mum couldn't physically get him out of bed. He's now a 6ft 3" man who won't get out of bed. It's been going on for nearly 10 years and getting worse. He needs help and I'm asking for advice on where we could possibly go from here and lots have given me a good start.

I didn't think he could get a social worker but I'll definitely look in to that.

You may think feeding him and housing him is enabling and maybe it is to some degree but I can't blame her for giving him the basics when there nothing else going on in his life.
I don't even know but meal times may be the only time he speaks to her during the day, it's probably the only time he leaves his room. Maybe she does it to keep some normalcy between them? Maybe she's just tired, run down and fallen into a routine.

I just know she wouldn't kick him out so that's not an option. It's obviously her I want to help too. If he gets better her life gets better.

I think it's interesting that he problem started at puberty and he refused to go to school and refused to sit exams. This would suggest that the problem is more deep seated than failure to launch.

When you say he has been assessed for sn, how far ranging were those investigations? If it was just gp, then it needs to be more thorough than that.

I know everyone says "could it be autism?" on threads like this, but in this instance it's worth considering. Or he could have something like GAD that he doesn't even acknowledge to himself?

It's also interesting that his needs were accommodated to such an extent that the whole house was decorated and he was allowed to refuse the renovation extending to his room.

I am no expert but I think some massive intervention has to take place here. If I could afford it, I would be getting him assessed privately. And then I would be putting unmovable deadlines in place at six month, twelve month, 18 month intervals by which he would have had to make progress or something less palatable happens.

I know this sounds a bit bizarre and I don't want to sound disrespectful but there is an animal training principle that says "make an easy thing hard, and a hard thing easy". And I think perhaps he needs something of that sort applied to his behaviour. Because he is doing what appears to be the immediately "easy" thing ATM, which of course will be very detrimental to him long term. Most of all I think, this needs outside intervention from someone who isn't emotionally involved with him.

Difficult to do currently, but again if I had the finances, I would be getting him on a plane and taking him to the USA and enrolling him in a month or two's work study volunteer programme for a good cause. Or maybe as a start, volunteering outdoors for the National Trust? Although that might be a step too far ATM.

Honestly, the more I read these threads, I think someone who is ex forces could make a fortune teaming up with a mh professional and a nutritionist, running residential programmes in the countryside for young adults like this, where tech was banned, a sort of "how to live and be happy and work hard together in a group" boot camp.

OP does the mum actually want to change anything though as you sound like a busybody getting into their private lives and posting it on the internet?

It sounds to me like she is happy with things the way they are so it's not up to you to interfere.

You say that he's had tough love but being waited on hand and foot and not having to pay a penny for everything that is provided free of charge, is not tough love.

This is heartbreaking as I know an 18 year old who gets no emotional support (and limited physical support tbh) from his mum and this will be him in 5 years time and there is nothing I can do to stop it. He won't go to school, won't speak to GP, told social workers everything was fine. Told Uncle who dropped in for a one hit wonder 'intervention' that everything was fine... has gone back to doing exactly what he's done every day since he was 12 gaming in his bedroom.

In this case, seeing as Mum actually wants to do something to help, I suggest she stops cooking for him, stops doing his washing etc and tells him he is now responsible for sorting out his own food.

If he tells her what he wants she might add it to a shop but personally I wouldn't even do that to start with.

@WallaceinAnderland

OP does the mum actually want to change anything though as you sound like a busybody getting into their private lives and posting it on the internet?

It sounds to me like she is happy with things the way they are so it's not up to you to interfere.

You say that he's had tough love but being waited on hand and foot and not having to pay a penny for everything that is provided free of charge, is not tough love.

This, really. He's not really getting a "tough love" approach at all, and what his mum is doing currently is enabling this lifestyle for him. It is her decision if she wants to carry on doing that or not. He won't change until there is a change in his situation that means he has no choice.

saying he was assessed for SEN and had nothing. How was he assessed if there were no signs of SEN? Did he even engage with the assessment
unfortunately quite often, those with atypical presentations of things like ADD or ASD can go from school refusers to life refusers. Stay in their rooms. Cant actually handle basic living.
These are often the ones that end up street homeless if they dont have kindly parents, and it really isnt the case that theyd just go out and get a job and have a normal life if their mum just kicked them out.
Most people DO have more motivation than this to do things. Its hardly a fulfilling fun life.

YY, we've had that, too. But the only way is to kick him out. He won't engage otherwise. Even then. It's part of his PDA. It's heartbreaking but there's not a lot else we can do. I'm not willing to live like that with another adult.

When I was young I had bad depression. I was like my boyfriend’s shadow. I only got better when he booked a holiday away for two months (don’t blame him looking back!) He did all my cooking etc and I was forced to change when he left.
When he returned I split up with him. It was dependency and he was enabling me, in turn it made my depression worse. I’ll always have depression but that was one of the times it was the worst and I couldn’t function. I doubt most people (Outside close family) would realise I suffer it now.
I do think she might be enabling him even by doing these basic things. While he has meals, home comforts, WiFi etc he has no motivation to change

The tough love has happened over the years when he was a teenager. He is a man now and the only tough love situation would be to kick him out on the street.
Something she won't do right now.

@WallaceinAnderland
Yes I'm a busy body, got it one. It's my family and my business so I'm making myself busy looking for advice to see if there are any other avenues we could go down. Helping family isn't that unusual you know?
Thanks for your input nevertheless.

@babymanchild

The tough love has happened over the years when he was a teenager. He is a man now and the only tough love situation would be to kick him out on the street. Something she won't do right now.

@WallaceinAnderland
Yes I'm a busy body, got it one. It's my family and my business so I'm making myself busy looking for advice to see if there are any other avenues we could go down. Helping family isn't that unusual you know?
Thanks for your input nevertheless.

Then she won't do it. Resources are very thin on the ground and honestly, you have to be quite bad to qualify.

Assessed by the school but yes they could have missed something, definitely.
I'd not heard of PDA but I've just been reading up and that sounds very much like him. Very very similar.

I take no prisoners here. He ought to have been dealt with a while ago. The fist stage ought to have been the cleanliness of the room, then his outlook on life and getting a job of some kind, or doing some form of part time study to improve his work chances. He's an adult, and the time is clearly here for him to start acting like one.

Frankly, he'd either shape up or he'd be out. The more you cosset him, the more he will take advantage. He will be a burden to you when he's fifty if you keep this up.

Yes I'm a busy body, got it one. It's my family and my business so I'm making myself busy looking for advice to see if there are any other avenues we could go down. Helping family isn't that unusual you know?

Has the mother asked you to seek advice though?

That seems to be the sticking point because if she won't even change the wifi password, it really sounds like she doesn't want your 'help'.

It's clear that everything posters have suggested require either engagement of the son or disengagement of the mother. If neither of them is willing to do that, your advice will not be well received.

@babymanchild

Assessed by the school but yes they could have missed something, definitely. I'd not heard of PDA but I've just been reading up and that sounds very much like him. Very very similar.

Whoah the school cant assess.

That's the job of a joint paediatric and CAMHS team.

Christ even the professionals can't agree on PDA half the time.