F1 2021 and we have a Schumacher on the grid again

[en0la]

In the absence of a F1 forum I'd like to chat about all things F1 Grand Prix.

How will the season go? How will the newest Schumacher fare ?

I can't wait for the first race.

@bigknickersbigknockers

Max should be ashamed and embarrassed over this win. If he had won fair and square I'd have been happy for him but the last lap of this race has made F1 a complete joke.

Ridiculous comment. Max didn't do anything wrong here.

@Roominmyhouse

I just don’t understand how you can be 12 seconds ahead and then someone else crashes, the safety car comes out and you completely lose any advantage when you aren’t involved in the crash. It’s madness.

That bit is completely normal - it happens all the time, sometimes more than once in a race! That's the kind of racing incident that swings both ways over a season, as it happens quite a lot.

The ending of this was a different story.

Problem is now the stewards are stuck. If they do void the race, then as PP observes Max will win, as he was ahead on victories. What else can they do? They can't penalise Max specifically, as it wasn't his error. Whatever they decide, Max is the champion now, surely. And Mercedes have the constructors anyway.

Yeah I know it’s what happens all the time but it’s just crazy really when you think about it.

Problem is now the stewards are stuck. If they do void the race, then as PP observes Max will win, as he was ahead on victories. What else can they do?

They can take the race result as it stood from before the restart. That would be from before Masi appears to have broken the rules. They also have the option of giving Max a 5 second penalty for overtaking behind the safety car, which he appears to have done. Either decision would give the championship to Lewis.

Hamilton had a favourable decision early on that was 'unfair'. Then Verstappen had one later on. But ultimately the officials wanted a motor race to be a motor race and Hamilton made two tactical decisions not to change his tires (one clearly against what the team were saying and expecting). That decision wasn't of Verstappen's making.

The problem wasn’t the FIA ‘making rules on the spot’ today, or ‘favouring’ Lewis and Max at the start and end of the race respectively. The problem has been them doing it all season long.

The stewards change every week, the rules are applied differently every week, it’s all a shitshow. Today was a perfect example of how inconsistent the FIA and the application of the rules are.

Let’s see what the stewards decide. Whatever the decision, I expect the disadvantaged team to escalate it over the winter break, even to court as has been the case before.

The first inconsistency was when race control announced that lapped cars would not be allowed to overtake the safety car before the restart. In over a decade of this rule being in place, can someone please tell me when have lapped cars been instructed NOT to overtake?

That was the first mistake by race control, done at a point where there would’ve been enough time for ALL lapped cars to overtake, had they wanted to.

It’s disgraceful that they kept changing their mind every ten seconds. But the first decision was a wrong one, to begin with.

I’d be surprised if they void the result…but a 5s penalty for Max overtaking Lewis before the safety car ended would be interesting

@prh47bridge

Problem is now the stewards are stuck. If they do void the race, then as PP observes Max will win, as he was ahead on victories. What else can they do?

They can take the race result as it stood from before the restart. That would be from before Masi appears to have broken the rules. They also have the option of giving Max a 5 second penalty for overtaking behind the safety car, which he appears to have done. Either decision would give the championship to Lewis.

They can't just decide 'oh we'll pretend the race ended at lap 56'. They can't just hand the championship to Lewis, much as you may want that. 🙄

@RedToothBrush

Hamilton had a favourable decision early on that was 'unfair'. Then Verstappen had one later on. But ultimately the officials wanted a motor race to be a motor race and Hamilton made two tactical decisions not to change his tires (one clearly against what the team were saying and expecting). That decision wasn't of Verstappen's making.

It was a thrilling ending. Its good for the sport.

If it was the other way around Hamilton fans would be saying the exact same thing ultimately.

Whilst I disagree with the decision on the first lap, it was consistent with the decision in Brazil and, given how much faster Hamilton was, it is unlikely that affected the outcome of the race.

I don't know where you get the bit about Hamilton making two decisions not to change his tyres from, still less the bit about it being against what his team were saying and expecting. Listening to the team radio, the team told him to stay out on both occasions and he questioned it both times.

It was not good for the sport if Max won due to Masi breaking the rules, which appears to have been the case.

can someone please tell me when have lapped cars been instructed NOT to overtake?

In the wet.

Max was fractionally ahead of of Lewis before the restart, but Lewis had the advantage when the actual restart happened, it’s not like Max overtook him.

In the same way that Lewis lifted off at the end of lap 1 and the stewards considered the advantage to have been nullified. He didn’t drive off into the sunset, he slowed down a little so he couldn’t be penalised for that first move.

Excluding that silly positioning of his car slightly ahead of Lewis before the restart, none of what happened during the race was Max’s fault. Mercedes ran a conservative strategy by not pitting because it would’ve cost them track position. Red Bull and Max took advantage of that. It happens ALL the time in F1, I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve seen this happen over the decades.

@PhilCornwall1

can someone please tell me when have lapped cars been instructed NOT to overtake?

In the wet.

But it's always either all lapped cars overtake or none.

Not just the first 5.

If Masi had followed the regulations we'd either have ALL of the lapped cars unlapping themselves before a restart (there would have been enough time if the decision had been made first). Verstappen would have won, in a way that followed regulations, which would be a shame (for me!) but fair.

But what they first decided was that cars would NOT unlap themselves - which follows the regulations - and Max would have had a chance to overtake without it being a dead cert. That would have been interesting and fitting and fair.

Since Masi decided to let some cars (not all, against the regulations) then the race should have ended under the safety car, per regulations, and Lewis would have won. That is a result they could FAIRLY reinstate, since that is what the regulations say.

I don't think they'll do it. But they could, as a way of saving face. Because that's the rules as written and agreed upon.

@PhilCornwall1

can someone please tell me when have lapped cars been instructed NOT to overtake?

In the wet.

Was this a wet race? Was it unsafe for lapped cars to unlap themselves, as it would when the conditions are particularly bad?

There was enough time and space for them all to unlap themselves. Race control should have instructed them to do just that, like they’ve done in dozens of occasions throughout the years.

I don't think they'll do it. But they could, as a way of saving face. Because that's the rules as written and agreed upon.

I agree with your whole comment. Although even if they did this, I think it’s way too late for them to save face this season. The stewarding and inconsistency from the FIA has been ridiculous, regardless of what they decide today. They’ve barely applied this agreed upon rules consistently this year, which is a shame because it gives way for situations like today to happen.

• But it's always either all lapped cars overtake or none.

Not just the first 5.*

Completely agree.

I think it's very funny that Kimi got Driver of the Day.

Was Perez for me, but that's a nice way for the fans to say goodbye.

Geri - uniting opposing fans with her bloody irritating presence

Agree I stupidly turned on again, just as she made her star appearance...

Interesting developments.

It was lovely to see Kimi’s kids on the track with him before it started. Looks like having a family suits him!

@GrouchyKiwi

I think it's very funny that Kimi got Driver of the Day.

Was Perez for me, but that's a nice way for the fans to say goodbye.

I’m sad he didn’t get to finish the race but at the same time, relieved his last lap in an F1 car wasn’t spent doing a stupid interview over the radio with a journalist congratulating him on getting Driver of the Day. Because that would’ve been the thing Kimi would’ve hated the most.

Because that would’ve been the thing Kimi would’ve hated the most

Yes it would

@givethatbabyaname

I agree that if it had been the other way around, Masi would have made the same call probably.

But that just makes this all more disappointing. It’s about F1, TV rights, and exciting game, growing fans. It’s less about the sport of motor racing.

We wouldn't have had this mess but for the joke of a Belgium GP result standing seemingly to avoid financial penalties.

Max's overtake attempt at the first corner was reckless. There's only one line into a 90 degree left turn and Lewis was on it. No racing driver would take the line Max was on because to make the corner you'd have to loose so much speed. Because he hadn't cleared the car to his offside he knew they'd be forced to take evasive action. That corner was highlighted by David Coulthard as likely to cause an issue and so it did.

It was obvious at then end that the race controller was under immense pressure to produce a racing result and he looks to of screwed up as a result. I don't have a dog in the fight with either of them, though I do think Max is too much of a hot head, but as a way to end a championship it has left a disagreeable taste in the mouth.

@simonisnotme

Max might be a good driver but that finish was a fucking set up for him to win on fresh tyres Hamilton was robbed !!

Lewis could have been on fresh tyres too though and his team opted not to ...

@BHX3000

The first inconsistency was when race control announced that lapped cars would not be allowed to overtake the safety car before the restart. In over a decade of this rule being in place, can someone please tell me when have lapped cars been instructed NOT to overtake?

That was the first mistake by race control, done at a point where there would’ve been enough time for ALL lapped cars to overtake, had they wanted to.

It’s disgraceful that they kept changing their mind every ten seconds. But the first decision was a wrong one, to begin with.

Agree with this, it escalated from here.