Students thrown off course for throwing a party.

[Cotbedy]

Basically, a load of students held a party of around 16/17 people. They got reported, they all got a £400 fine, apart from the host who got a £10,000 fine.

Then their Uni kicked them all off their courses for bringing the Uni into disrepute.

I think this is probably a fair and reasonable punishment, but DP thinks the Uni have gone too far and they're being unfair.

I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on the matter! Fair or unreasonable?

Which uni?

This sounds to me like something that's been kicking off at Portsmouth. This university is already hitting education media for all the wrong reasons: such as ditching their English department of all subjects.

No, I think it's utterly outrageous. This is particularly so given some of the disgusting treatment students have endured in Halls of Residence up and down the country. There's a university in the midlands forcing students to cough up accommodation fees for accommodation they haven't used since last October. They need bringing to book.

I'm thinking particularly of the University of Exeter, who were quite happy to allow the most disgusting behaviour back onto their campus, and reinstate male students known to have made rape and death threats against a female student. Said female student was just expected to live her life in fear and 'suck in up'.

And there was me, thinking it almost impossible for students to do anything bad enough to be rusticated in this day and age. (In my undergraduate days, two proven cases of plagiarism against you and you were out).

I think it’s fair if that was the uni guidelines. Maybe harsh for a first offence but you don’t just accidentally have a party. Hs DDs flat in halls had a party and invited the next door flat so about 25 there iirc. They didn’t get caught but they all got covid as 2 from the other flat had it. This was just near Xmas, they could have taken it home to family and spread it more. Totally thoughtless of them.

I'm a mature student, part time. I still get all the same "all student" communications from the Principal and university governing body.

We have had loads of emails reminding us about the laws around social distancing, parties, household mixing. Each one has made it VERY clear that wilful breaking of the law will result in your place at Uni being removed. They're not talking about not maintaining social distance with a friend on a walk, or any of the very minor infringements. They are talking about parties.

My PFB and his sister have been at home since December learning remotely but hope to return in April. They have a lot of family support and good working conditions here. I may venture that this is not the case for all students and those with the least support possibly have the weakest boundaries. However the breaching of rules also puts at risk the health and wellbeing of operational staff - often the lowest paid.

They're not fully formed adults.

But presumably they expect to enjoy all the privileges that come with adulthood? The right to vote, the right to buy alcohol, and so on?

If 18-19 yos aren't capable of behaving like adults, perhaps the age of majority should be put back up to 21?

@LaceyBetty

No way do I agree with this if true. To have your entire life possibly irreparably damaged due to not being able to complete your education for having small party?! They were fined, that's enough.

But they could ruin someone else's whole life if they cause a rise in cases and pass it on to someone else.

@UserEleventyNine

They're not fully formed adults.

But presumably they expect to enjoy all the privileges that come with adulthood? The right to vote, the right to buy alcohol, and so on?

If 18-19 yos aren't capable of behaving like adults, perhaps the age of majority should be put back up to 21?

Unfortunately that privilege also includes parents forking out thousands a year top up because the amount of student loan depends on parents income, so not proper adults in that respect, still dependent on adults for money. No doubt the parents will have to pay the fines as the student won't have their own money so no they aren't capable of behaving like adults

It would be interesting to know how many of these students that keep getting fines actually pay their own fines.

@RedRiverShore

Well, no Mumsnetters DC would have been at the university in question because its not RG is it

@Medievalist

Depends what university policy is about breaking the law generally, and what sort of crime a student would normally have to commit to get expelled.

I was the Chair of a well-known university's Disciplinary Committee in a past life, so I think I may have some insights into what seems - on the face of it - like an out-of-proportion punishment in this case.

When students enrol at a university or college, they sign an agreement to abide by the institution's rules and regulations. Failure to agree to these regulations means no registration and no degree. Think of it as being like signing a job contract whereby you agree to abide by your employer's rules and regulations on pain of being disciplined or dismissed.

Virtually every university in the UK has a similar clause in their regulations: 'Being convicted of any criminal offence whilst a member of the university will automatically become a university disciplinary matter and may result in suspension or expulsion once an investigation has been concluded'. It's in all staff contracts too and, in my experience, is enforced rigorously.

These students were convicted of a crime. It's not up to the university to decide whether the law is wrong or right; it's the university's job to enforce their own regulations. Which they did. No amount of special pleading can change the fact that these students essentially broke a contract they had signed up to and, in the process, brought their university into disrepute.

Hope this helps.

I don’t think it is too strict but it is a bit unfair, so many friends/family groups do the same and they hardly ever get the fines that they deserve.

I know of people that are doing 20 people at home every other weekend, group walks on the weekends they are not having a home party and have done so at least 3 times a month... not a single bloody fine, none whatsoever.

@RedRiverShore

It would be interesting to know how many of these students that keep getting fines actually pay their own fines.

The student I know will have to pay their own fine because the parents certainly can’t afford to pay.

They're not fully formed adults...

This is the kind of thing that parents frequently argued with regard to disciplinary offences when I was working in a university.

My view is that, if there is a general consensus in society that 18 year olds are not fully formed adults and cannot be responsible for their actions, then we need to review the way in which they are supervised in university settings. The age of majority would need to be raised, and we should prohibit alcohol for under-21s, as they are clearly too immature to drink it sensibly. Parents would need to arrange appropriate supervision for their DCs, and be legally responsible for the consequences of their DC's actions.

Of course, it would be a bit harsh on the many 18-year olds who are perfectly capable of behaving like functioning adults, but if the general view is that they are not capable of being responsible at that age, then we should not put unrealistic adult expectations upon them.

Very harsh

fluffyhippo Aren’t these FPT’s so they don’t go on your criminal record if you pay them? It is side stepping justice because there is no right of appeal, all you can do is fail to pay and see if you get taken to court. If it goes to court you might get let off or you might have to pay costs as well. I think the fines are disproportionate and to kick them out of university for attending a party is crazy. What are they actually trying to achieve here? This will just create resentment who have given up a massive amount to protect others in the past year.

So if students convicted of a crime gets kicked out, is this also true of road traffic offences like speeding?

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

Which uni?

This sounds to me like something that's been kicking off at Portsmouth. This university is already hitting education media for all the wrong reasons: such as ditching their English department of all subjects.

No, I think it's utterly outrageous. This is particularly so given some of the disgusting treatment students have endured in Halls of Residence up and down the country. There's a university in the midlands forcing students to cough up accommodation fees for accommodation they haven't used since last October. They need bringing to book.

I'm thinking particularly of the University of Exeter, who were quite happy to allow the most disgusting behaviour back onto their campus, and reinstate male students known to have made rape and death threats against a female student. Said female student was just expected to live her life in fear and 'suck in up'.

And there was me, thinking it almost impossible for students to do anything bad enough to be rusticated in this day and age. (In my undergraduate days, two proven cases of plagiarism against you and you were out).

I agree. Like Lancaster Uni charging £18 per day for a food parcel for isolating students. Their covid "support" was just a webpage of links to businesses providing services like laundry collection/delivery, supermarkets that were doing on line shopping etc. They weren't actually doing anything themselves at all to help support students who weren't allowed to leave their rooms.

@FluffyHippo appreciate the explanation. Supportive of what the university concerned has done, only wish others such as Exeter (case above) had done the same.

@Firstbellini

So if students convicted of a crime gets kicked out, is this also true of road traffic offences like speeding?

How would they even find out though?

@AlexaShutUp

They're not fully formed adults...

This is the kind of thing that parents frequently argued with regard to disciplinary offences when I was working in a university.

My view is that, if there is a general consensus in society that 18 year olds are not fully formed adults and cannot be responsible for their actions, then we need to review the way in which they are supervised in university settings. The age of majority would need to be raised, and we should prohibit alcohol for under-21s, as they are clearly too immature to drink it sensibly. Parents would need to arrange appropriate supervision for their DCs, and be legally responsible for the consequences of their DC's actions.

Of course, it would be a bit harsh on the many 18-year olds who are perfectly capable of behaving like functioning adults, but if the general view is that they are not capable of being responsible at that age, then we should not put unrealistic adult expectations upon them.

The rational part of a teen's brain isn't fully developed until 25. So they're more at risk of making stupid decisions.

I did comment after my original comment that if it's a second offence then they should get expelled but people seem to have jumped on me saying 'they're not fully formed adults'.

Which they're not.

I think its too harsh, they have been punished already by the law and the uni didnt need to add to it.
A £10000 fine for student is massive and honestly imo disproportionate compared to other fines given for other offences.
They are young and stupid but they aren't the only ones breaking the rules, I went a christening in the autumn and one of the usual church congragation turned 80 , they held an informal birthday party after the service with champagne.and birthday cake it was very sweet, no real social distancing and clearly against the rules but no one phoned the police or was given a £10000 fine.
I think young people are given a rough ride.

The rational part of a teen's brain isn't fully developed until 25. So they're more at risk of making stupid decisions.

So perhaps we need to raise the age of majority to 25? And make parents responsible for their kids until that time?

Tbh, a whole host of problems would disappear from universities if alcohol was taken out of the equation!

The fine would have been enough.

Kgrzghtechh
Shame universities don't bother to take such action against all the rapists on their courses

Exactly. They go to great lengths to cover up sexual assaults.

Depression and suicide rates are high amongst Uni students. But they're young and I'm minded there's a downer on young people in general so it's not really a topic for discussion is it.

Business is business

So if students convicted of a crime gets kicked out, is this also true of road traffic offences like speeding?

Hopefully so. Unlike potentially passing on COVID, it can be directly fatal.

The more I think about this . The bit about ‘the host’ being fined £10K. Very few students live alone, they’re either in flats in halls or shared private houses, both involving other students so how did the police determine the host?