Toxic work environment for Buffy actors

[Teardrop2021]

www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidmack/buffy-angel-cordelia-charisma-carpenter-joss-whedon. Another Hollywood producer using his role to be an abusive prick. When will still stop and why did it take someone else to speak out for others to follow.

I think before #metoo there was just an acceptance of that's how things are.

For example actresses were expected to be sexually harassed in Hollywood as everyone knows that's what being famous takes. Anyone going into it knew they'd need to capitalise their bodies to make it. There was an assumption that actresses were weird, narcissistic and slutty. Not helped by people like Angelina Jolie making all sorts of sexually inappropriate comments.

Metoo brought everything in to question,- from wolf whistling to rape. And that's why Ccs story is suddenly listened to because the rules of what's ok have changed.
Her story has always reeked of being wromg- it's just that we all put up with lots more shit back in the day.

@amusedbush no one is better looking than Spike

[quote TheBuffster]@amusedbush no one is better looking than Spike [/quote]
I’m not big on cheekbones, I’m more into Ripper

This has been known for years. I remember his ex-wife's statement a few years ago. I think being a 'nerd' and cynically claiming to be a feminist gave him cover. A lot of people think the geeky guys can never be pricks in the way the alpha males can.

@Timpeall yes that's basically what the trope of the geeky guy that deserves sex does in big bang, back to the future etc.

Nerdy Guy: takes binoculars and watches girl undress.
World: Aww bless him, he can't get someone in real life. Poor pathetic guy. That girl needs to get over herself and go out with him, even though they're really mismatched.
Girl: Um is that actually ok? I mean surely he's creepy behaviour isn't good on anyone and...

Time passed and geeky guy love bombs her whilst continually chipping away at her values, self worth and relationships.
World: yes girl you are only valued for looks so therefore it's you that are shallow. Nice people don't care about looks (if they're female, obviously) go out with a geek to prove you are a real human.
Girl: I love you, Mr Geek.
Geek: Immediately dumps girl for younger, hotter girl.
Girl:WTAF
World: Well, you did let yourself go.

@amusedbush Ripper, yes. Unfortunately Giles himself is way too much like a dad to me.
Riley and Xander the worst though (personality based).

I watched buffy for the first time last year, and am now on season 5 of angel.
Watching today's episode after the recent news (which was news to me), there are so many jarring notes I probably wouldn't have noticed before.

@TheBuffster

In season 2 when Giles goes to get his revenge on Angelus and he throws the molotov, then emerges from the flames 😏

I love that Ripper is always just beneath the tweed surface...

Many workplaces were like that 15, 20, 30 years ago. All of mine were. Its how it was. You were just expected to put up with it.

I remember reading years ago that Charisma Carpenter got a hard time courtesy of JW and I’m glad that it’s being discussed now even if it’s a bit late. I think I read the other day that the actress who played Dawn said there ended up being a rule on set that she was never to be left alone with JW. I can’t remember where I read that though.

I wasn’t that shocked about JW being a twat and a creep when I first heard about it, mostly because I’m pretty sure he has said that Xander is meant to basically be him and Xander is a fucking prick in many, many ways and never really improves or even really changes much as a character. The others all grow and change- Cordelia is the biggest difference I think from beginning to end.

Michelle Trachtenberg (probably spelled that wrong!) Posted on her own Instagram that she was not allowed to be alone in a room with JW when she was 15 years old and playing Dawn, so clearly something happened to precipitate that rule.

Clare Kramer (Glory) also posted in support of CC.

Agree that Xander was a misogynistic knob. The way he treated Buffy and Anya about their dalliance with Spike was disgusting. Who wouldn't want a dalliance with Spike?! They're only human (demon in Anya's case).

Here is Michelle's text www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/buffy-michelle-trachtenberg-joss-whedon-b1801280.html%3famp. Really weird the way she wrote it.

@Binglebong

Here is Michelle's text www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/buffy-michelle-trachtenberg-joss-whedon-b1801280.html%3famp. Really weird the way she wrote it.

Yes I agree it was written confusingly. Her posts are usually quite strange. Last year she posted a picture of her wearing an engagement ring. A day, and hundreds of congratulatory comments, later she posted that she wasn't really engaged and she'd just posted that to highlight bullying on social media and people should be more considerate of others or something? It was odd.

@WhereDoMyBluebirdsFly the thing that ruins it for me is all the internalised misogyny. Like how Willow and Buffy never held Xander to account for cheating on either Cordy or Anya.
Don't get me wrong, I love the series, but will be providing a running feminist commentary when D's is old enough to watch it.

[quote TheBuffster]@WhereDoMyBluebirdsFly the thing that ruins it for me is all the internalised misogyny. Like how Willow and Buffy never held Xander to account for cheating on either Cordy or Anya.
Don't get me wrong, I love the series, but will be providing a running feminist commentary when D's is old enough to watch it.[/quote]
It is a shame that Xander’s horrible behaviour is never really addressed but then again the series was created by a misogynistic fuckwit who probably didn’t want the audience to think too deeply about what a cunt Xander was being.

At the time I saw it as strong women not being immune from bad situations and making mistakes. I'm not sure how I'd feel seeing it now.

I love Buffy too btw and Angel and I first introduced my own daughter to Buffy when she was around 10. She didn’t like Xander right from the first season, probably the first few episodes, for the same reason I don’t- he’s awful to the girls in his life. I was impressed as it took me until I was quite a bit older than 10 to realise that Xander isn’t actually a nice person.

Unfortunately I read Tenhawk so I used that version of Xander (fanfiction) and not the common one. Really hard to be objective.

James Marsters is mine

Another huge Buffy fan here. I started watching it just as it was ending.

I was always really confused by JW being lauded as a Feminist. I never understood it. All his female cast were super attractive, Buffy was constantly going after the "wrong" man, forgiving Spike after his attempted rape because he'd got a soul was the equivalent of a bad man doing a good thing and his past transgressions being washed away. The character of Faith was overly sexualised, more disturbing now I just clicked how old ED was.

As others have pointed out, Xander was a total wanker but the women he wronged became unhinged and acted out whereas he was just "good old Xander".

Before the latest stories began circulating I'd started my 5th 2nd rewatch and through my 42 year old eyes a lot of it didn't always sit right with me.

The CC stuff has been well known for years, she hasn't been quiet about it but only now are people putting their heads above the parapet. I stopped watching Angel because of the shite Connor storyline. I will give S5 a go based on comments upthread.

As for Alyson Hannigan - personal opinion based on one interview but i always get bad vibes from her. She was asked about the alleged bad blood between her and SMG and swerved the question but gave a knowing smirk which really didn't sit well with me for some reason.

I'm happy to watch and rewatch the show because the show couldn't have been the brilliant entertainment it was with JW alone. There's a lot of talent, comic timing and just great characters that without the actors the show may not have gelled as well and may not have been as successful. CC was a fantastic Mean Girl and it's a shame her character was trashed because CC really did a good job with it.

@ItsJackieWeaverBitch wow what a smart girl and a credit to you.
It probably took about the 100th watching for me.

It's interesting because one of the reasons Buffy did resonate with me was partly some of the tired mysogynist tropes used were applicable to how I was feeling as a girl living in a patriarchal society. For example the guilt and judgement around losing your virginity and how quickly men changed after getting sex. Angelus, Parker.

Buffy was fairly forward thinking for it's time and on the whole has aged better than its contemporaries (friends for example) but there are definitely some old world overtones laced into the themes, which are more glaringly obvious looking back.

Mind you it's still more feminist than How I Met Your Mother which is embarrassing sexist for being so modern.

HIMYM bored me to tears, I only watched it because AH was in it- my love for BTVS cast (even the one I wasn't that keen on) let me down.

Barney is to himym as Xander is to Buffy as Joey is to friends.
As Mr Big is to satc as twoandahalfmem is to Charlie.

It seems to be some kind of unwritten rule that every series has an idolised misogynistic womaniser.

I will say this for btvs feminist credentials: Buffy was allowed to be a single, just fine on her own Artemis figure at the end (excluding comics, which I haven't read)
All the series listed above got married at the very least (usually to a douche).

Cook dough!

Cookie *

Looking back at season 1 it's quite clear to see Joss whedon was selling the girls sex appeal for the show. The skirts and dress were extremely short and paired with the knee high boots. Buffy and Cordy didn't dress appropriately for 16 year old highschoolers they dressed like they will going to night clubs. It was the only show where highschoolers dressed liked they were in night clubs even the oc, one tree weren't as bad as buffy the vampire slayer. Looking back they were over sexualized. At 10 years old I looked up to these girls and thought that's what I thought I had to be which is quite a frightening message

A couple more outfits from season 1. There was definitely abig shift of outfits from season 1 to season 2.