Toxic work environment for Buffy actors

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www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidmack/buffy-angel-cordelia-charisma-carpenter-joss-whedon. Another Hollywood producer using his role to be an abusive prick. When will still stop and why did it take someone else to speak out for others to follow.

The Connor storyline made me feel ill, as from memory he was meant to be 15 too? I didn't know that was in retaliation to CCs pregnancy though, what the fuck...it always seemed really..random tbh.

I'd never heard the rumours and I've been so sad this week reading what those actresses went through. Men ruin fucking everything.

I loved Buffy but thought Angel was a let down. Had never heard of the rumours so disgusted at hearing about that environment

The whole real like dynamics of the show always made me uncomfortable. A lot of the actors though smg was a diva and that her and Joss were pretty unforgiving regarding everyone else's performances. And Nicholas with his abuse problems.

Interesting that Hannigan hasn't said anything yet.

Interesting this is only getting more serious coverage now that a man has complained about his treatment by JW.

That storyline put me off season 4 and I stopped watching at the time I never watched season5 because of it although it was suppose to be good.

Season 5 was one of the best seasons, but I can understand why you gave up after S4. At the time I watched it I had no idea why Angel had taken such a bizarre and illogical turn; none of the storylines made sense. I later read that they had to rewrite it for Charisma's pregnancy, but it still seemed weird. Couldn't they just hide her pregnancy with floaty outfits like SJP did in Sex and the City? Why have the weird almost-incest story with Connor? Now it's obvious that JW put those scenes in to humiliate Charisma.

It is interesting that this gets more coverage now a man has complained. Hopefully more men speak up in the future too.

Eliza Dushku posted a supportive message on instagram for CC yesterday. Eliza previously spoke about her own horrific #MeToo experience when she was a child actor so she's definitely seen the predatory side of Hollywood.

Agree with both PPs about a man coming forward.

ASH has now said he didn't see anything but he believes her and keeps asking himself why he didn't see it.

ASH was abit absent in the part of the series maybe the abuse got worse in the later series maybe series 6. I was still fairly young when series 4 angel was aired and I remember thinking it was utterly grim he had been a baby nursed by cordy then the next thing she was having sex with him was suddenly murdering an innocent woman as a sacrifice for their baby who becomes jasmine wtf was so far fetched. I just gave up on the series. I know I need to revise the series 5.

His ex wife Kai Cole spoke about this years ago. I was gutted at the time, such a disappointment.

But when you think about Buffy some of the storylines are the opposite of empowering for girls. I adore Buffy but watching it with my teenage daughter I saw it through new eyes and had a lot of discussions with her about body image and the role of sex in the programme.

Yes @HumphreyCobblers

Some of the problematic storylines that stuck I my mind:

Xander's friend zone entitlement to a relationship with Buffy.
Xander's treatment of Corey and Anya and everyone making excuses for him.
The implication that Buffy has to love Riley in exactly the way/timeframe he wants or she's a bad girlfriend.
Riley blaming Buffy for infidelity.
Oz's infidelity brushed off as a werewolf thing (he's human when he locks Veruca in the cage)
Angel's stalking a minor behaviour (and that is romantic)
Just Xander in general to be honest.
The 'punishments' meted out to Buffy and Willow for having heterosexual and homosexual sex.

I remember Joss saying he really identified with Xander. Perhaps he was hiding in.plain sight the whole time?

YY excellent list TheBuffster. Agree entirely!

I also talked to DD about the physicality of all the actors - every female was tiny except Tara and JW publically stated he thought that she was physically wrong for the character. Nothing wrong with being tiny of course but in real life women come in all sorts of shapes and they are all fine. Given his avowed feminist credentials he could have made more of an effort, even given the prevalent standard female tv image

I’m a huge Buffy fan and have watched it over and over for the past 20 years. I’m actually just now watching Angel because I never finished it.

I’ve read plenty about JW’s abuse during filming. Apparently SMG’s weight loss in the last couple of seasons was down to him and her body double refused to lose the same amount as it was impossible to be that slim and still have the strength to do the action sequences.

He also allegedly told Nicholas Brendon to stop working out because Xander couldn’t be better looking than Spike.

@HumphreyCobblers

YY excellent list TheBuffster. Agree entirely!

I also talked to DD about the physicality of all the actors - every female was tiny except Tara and JW publically stated he thought that she was physically wrong for the character. Nothing wrong with being tiny of course but in real life women come in all sorts of shapes and they are all fine. Given his avowed feminist credentials he could have made more of an effort, even given the prevalent standard female tv image

Yes, I’ve seen this too. He wanted someone ‘fragile’ to play Tara but Marti Noxon pushed for Amber.

Amber was actually a perfectly healthy weight but they insisted on putting her in the most unflattering, frumpy clothes which made her look bigger, especially next to SMG and Emma.

I read about this when his wife divorced him. I always thought it was Eliza Dushku he had an affair with and that made the atmosphere toxic (she was 16 when she started her role as Faith).

What has suffered mainly for Josh apart from his reputation, is his work. Season 4 of Angel is awful.

And I always feel sad that buffy ended when it did which I think was due to the toxic work environment. SMG always said she'd had enough and it didn't seem like she was super keen on JW. She came across as a bit miserable TBH.

To be fair Tara’s character probably wouldn’t ever have gone for figure hugging clothes, so I think her wardrobe was fine. Amber Benson was amazing in that role.

A show with his name on it “The Nevers” is due out soon, but since he’s now departed the project, it’s got female show-runners and, crucially, it seems to have a cast of grown-up women, I’ll give it a go.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nevers

Interesting that Hannigan hasn't said anything yet.

She's currently contracted to Disney with a new TV show soon to air so I would guess she is under all sorts of social media restrictions right now, especially in the wake of the Gina Carano stuff.

Charisma Carpenter was purposely killed off as soon as possible after she had delivered her baby (can't fire a pregnant women I guess) and found out that she was being killed off from a journalist rather than direct from JW. As well as the humiliating storylines and total sidelining (her character was off-screen in a coma for large parts of the season) he also employed tactics such as calling her in at the last minute for 1am reshoots despite a doctor saying she needed to rest and berating her on set for gaining weight.

There are all sorts of stories and anecdotes about the various productions that show he was hiding in plain sight all this time.

The cynical part of me knows it isn't going to damage his career. At some point soon he will release a repentant statement that will borrow heavily from the Script Of Caught-Out Abusers. The statement will reference his "passion" for his work and that sometimes this passion will spill out into frustration and frayed tempers, he will say he is sorry if his actions offended anyone (making it their fault for being over-sensitive rather than his fault for being being abusive arsehole). He will say he is learning/growing and always strives to "do better" so will take lessons from this situation (i.e., don't hire anyone in future who is likely to blab). He'll go for show-therapy or even for show-rehab to get help for his "anger issues" and then his career will carry on as normal. He'll be a "reformed character", welcomed back into the fold and lauded for "facing his demons" with no end of people willing to work with him (for reference see Woody Allen, Roman Polanski, Bryan Singer, Michael Douglas, James Franco, etc). Meanwhile Ray Fisher, Charisma Carpenter, and all the many others will have lesser careers because they'll be known as "troublemakers" and "difficult to work with".

I actually think this might damage his career. Tbh looking at his costumes season 1 buffy the skirts were way too short I think smg put her foot down as by season 2 they did change although she weight was considerably more noticeable by the time season 6 whether that was the pressure of Hollywood or joss whedon who knows.

I don't know about Angel, as I didn't get as far as series 5, but I do think there's a bit of an atmosphere to each series that could have run parallel to Joss' escalating behaviour.
Series 1: Family fun
Series 2: Closenit cast
Series 3: Old familiars
Series 4: Disjointed and lackluster
Series 5: Intense
Series 6: Painful
Series 7: Gritty

Of course I could be assigning meaning after the fact, but I always felt they were a reflective cast.

So disappointed by this. With hindsight it does make sense. Very sad.

This is Kai Cole’s own account of her marriage.
www.thewrap.com/joss-whedon-feminist-hypocrite-infidelity-affairs-ex-wife-kai-cole-says/

This story has been knocking around for years. It's interesting that it only becomes news now, after CC speaks up to tell her own story in support of Ray Fisher. But she's told it before and it's not made this kind of stir. And his ex-wife also exposed his behaviour three or four years ago - again, hardly a ripple.

Not only has #MeToo made those who have suffered abuse feel able to speak up, but suddenly news outlets, etc, seem to be furiously virtue-signalling now that they perceive it to be safe to do so.

I'll be very interested to see if Alyson Hannigan speaks up. I remember reading that she and SMG didn't get on particularly well, and I always felt that she had a strong bond with JW. And of course, he cast Alexis Denisof in his version of Much Ado. I wonder where their loyalties lie.

Those commenting on ASH - have you seen his interview with This Morning? He does comment himself on the way it might seem: "This is not a man saying, 'I didn't see it so it didn't happen.' "

Am so sick of celeb "apologies" where they vow to "learn and grow". Not that I think JW will speak out at all. I don't think he gives a shit what anyone thinks or says about him.

Another sad buffy fab here
But not surprised having heard cc speak out on this before

Oh and yes series 5 of angel is epic hated series 4 too

I love Buffy and Angel, they were teenage obsessions and I have rewatched several times since. But looking back some of the attitudes to sex and relationships are messed up. Buddy's relationships with both Angel and spike are toxic and abusive yet they are the ones portrayed as romantic and passionate. Christan Grey syndrome several years before 50 Shades.