Can white people ever experience racism?

[LittleRedCourgettes]

Following a discussion on this topic with some students, I was reading this article and am interested to hear your honest thoughts on this question.....

https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/wherediddwegetttheideaathatonlyywhitepeopleecanbeeracist

• Try working for an Indian company
• try living in an arab country

just from the top of my head

Honestly the fact this has even been posted as a question is totally embarrassing.

No, white people cannot truly experience racism. Check all of your privilege, look at the systems of oppression against BAME people that are rife in this country:
Examples, black women 5 times more likely to due in childbirth in the UK. Black men 8 times more likely to be stopped and searched. Black people more likely to be convicted of a crime than white counterparts who have committed the same crime. Use of the mental health act and restraint used disproportionately against black men. All this upon the generational trauma of hundreds of years of racism and slavery.
No, white people will never experience any of this. It is Not the same as someone being a bit nasty to you because you're english, that's prejudice not racism.

Some further reading I urge many of you to undertake and challenge your preconceptions:
gal-dem.com/reverse-racism-not-exist/
An extract:
Racism causes racial tensions which means yes, hostility exists on all sides and tension can be elevated by any person of any race. But still, reverse racism is not a thing.

“Racism is more complicated than a person of one race disliking a person of another race and acting on it”

For example, if a person of colour initiates violence against a white person, solely because they are white, it is because of prejudice, not reverse racism. It is as condemnable as it would be vice versa. But it does not require a secondary definition or explanation of racism in the form of reverse racism. All racial tensions are products of the same structure of racism."

What @Falafelwrap said. I’m surprised at the replies, I expected OP to get flamed. I guess mumsnet is full of oversensitive white folk

@QuentinWinters

Travellers definitely experience discrimination caused by their heritage. On the whole though, I think "racism" is shorthand for people being treated as inferior on the basis of darker skin and stems from a history of exploitation of black and brown people by the white oppressor class historically. I don't think discrimination aimed at white people comes from the same root cause so I wouldn't call it racism.

I agree with that part about it not being from the same root regarding white people 100%

@Vegeetas that is not the majority though is it? I’m not condoning it but how many times have you experienced this? Is it a regular thing or a one off?

I was reading the thread waiting for someone to say "wah but racism has to be systemic and institutional and widespread to really be racism, if it's just against one person it's discrimination not racism".

This is the idea that the woke brigade have been pushing recently, and unsurprisingly it's taken off more in the US and lots of British consumers of US social media and so forth are trying to apply the same thing in the UK. But it goes against the simple definition of the word and convolutes the issue for seemingly no reason.

Dictionary definition of racism:

1 The unfair treatment of people who belong to a different race; violent behaviour towards them

2 Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group

3 The belief that some races of people are better than others

And so on. There is no major dictionary that states it has to be systemic and historic for it to be racist.

So yes, based on the dictionary definition rather than the tumblr argument, white people can experience racism. I experienced it a LOT from the south asian community when I was in a relationship with an Indian man in my early 20s.

@Sinuhe the word “coloured” is so old fashioned my nan says it and she is 74. You need to address people’s race correctly what on earth is “coloured”.

It’s a terrible word.

[quote Roastednotsalt]@Vegeetas that is not the majority though is it? I’m not condoning it but how many times have you experienced this? Is it a regular thing or a one off?[/quote]
I have experienced this quite a few times honestly but that was the most extreme example. On another trip to London much later, the guy at a corner shop checkout refused to take a card payment and insisted cash only as he didn't trust "my people". I handed why shopping back and walked out shaking my head and went somewhere else.

Don't misunderstand me however, I would never claim it was a blanket "anyone who lives there is a racist" as that would be utter nonsense. I was purely talking to my own experience on the recieving end of actual racism and using it to illustrate my understanding.

I sometimes feel that the racial hatred thing is possibly talked up to much more than it actually is. Actual quantifiable hatred is a tiny fraction of people and honestly, I would like nothing more than to shoot them into the sun.

No, white people cannot truly experience racism.

Cannot truly experience it based on these specific reasons given or cannot experience it at all?

Because they cannot experience these specific acts of (systemic) racism, doesn't mean they cannot experience other forms of racism.

@Sinuhe

I have been singled out by a group of coloured people at uni for being white and of a certain nationality... Racism is rife as soon as you are different from the majority of people.

Coloured people? Seriously?

@PoplarTrees

I was reading the thread waiting for someone to say "wah but racism has to be systemic and institutional and widespread to really be racism, if it's just against one person it's discrimination not racism".

This is the idea that the woke brigade have been pushing recently, and unsurprisingly it's taken off more in the US and lots of British consumers of US social media and so forth are trying to apply the same thing in the UK. But it goes against the simple definition of the word and convolutes the issue for seemingly no reason.

Dictionary definition of racism:

1 The unfair treatment of people who belong to a different race; violent behaviour towards them

2 Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group

3 The belief that some races of people are better than others

And so on. There is no major dictionary that states it has to be systemic and historic for it to be racist.

So yes, based on the dictionary definition rather than the tumblr argument, white people can experience racism. I experienced it a LOT from the south asian community when I was in a relationship with an Indian man in my early 20s.

This! It bears repeating. Racism can be inflicted by anyone of any ethnicity. Some people’s stories on here show white people do experience racism.

@PoplarTrees

I was reading the thread waiting for someone to say "wah but racism has to be systemic and institutional and widespread to really be racism, if it's just against one person it's discrimination not racism".

This is the idea that the woke brigade have been pushing recently, and unsurprisingly it's taken off more in the US and lots of British consumers of US social media and so forth are trying to apply the same thing in the UK. But it goes against the simple definition of the word and convolutes the issue for seemingly no reason.

Dictionary definition of racism:

1 The unfair treatment of people who belong to a different race; violent behaviour towards them

2 Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group

3 The belief that some races of people are better than others

And so on. There is no major dictionary that states it has to be systemic and historic for it to be racist.

So yes, based on the dictionary definition rather than the tumblr argument, white people can experience racism. I experienced it a LOT from the south asian community when I was in a relationship with an Indian man in my early 20s.

I am just amazed no one has told be to check my privlidge or call me an evil colonizer yet lol

You have to take this nonsense in stride and focus on solving the real problems rather than the imagined.

[quote Roastednotsalt]@Sinuhe the word “coloured” is so old fashioned my nan says it and she is 74. You need to address people’s race correctly what on earth is “coloured”.

It’s a terrible word.[/quote]
I think it's a bit unfair that people are pilloried for saying 'coloured' but 'of colour' is very fashionable and means the same thing. Not everyone can be uptodate on the PC words du jour.
(I was actually called racist for using the expression 'of colour' in the Guardian because white is also a colour, but it is used by POC themselves!).

@Sinuhe

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Are you from the dark ages? How old are you or where have you been to still say 'coloured people'?

"black women 5 times more likely to due in childbirth in the UK. Black men 8 times more likely to be stopped and searched. Black people more likely to be convicted of a crime than white counterparts who have committed the same crime. Use of the mental health act and restraint used disproportionately against black men. All this upon the generational trauma of hundreds of years of racism and slavery."

And six million Jews and other groups were exterminated. How is that not racist?

@Sinuhe Are you from the dark ages? How old are you or where have you been to still say 'coloured people'?

I think it's a bit unfair that people are pilloried for saying 'coloured' but 'of colour' is very fashionable and means the same thing. Not everyone can be uptodate on the PC words du jour.
(I was actually called racist for using the expression 'of colour' in the Guardian because white is also a colour, but it is used by POC themselves!).

I think they're all the same and can't stand poc, bame, coloured, black, etc either. I'm not just my skin. My question to the poster was wondering how they haven't heard about 'coloured' being a no-no for sometime now. I agree that not everyone is up-to-date but it's not everyday you come across someone who still uses that word online, let alone on mumsnet.

@Falafelwrap not by the dictionary or legal definition of what racism is. I completely agree that institutional racism is very evident and completely wrong across British society. But its also not correct to say that its white privilege to think that racism can occur across spectrums. Travellers are a group who regularly suffer from it and also at a institutional level. What's reported against polish and Eastern European communities etc. By legal and dictionary definition yes it's possible which is what the question was.

@TeaAndStrumpets

So we discount thousands of years of oppression of white peasants, miners, etc? I have done a lot of family history research. Most of my ancestors lived a very impoverished life with no prospects.

Indeed, however, that counts for nothing. You are privilege because you are white now don't you start pretending that you had any disadvantage or your family ever did because you are white so suck it up you privileged white person you. You really don't 'fit' with any woke at all (you don't happen to be a trans woman?) - no ? then forget it. How dare you even make any point - you do realise that everything that ever happened to anyone ever is your fault. Now start saying sorry, pay up and go away.

@Afromeg

I think it's a bit unfair that people are pilloried for saying 'coloured' but 'of colour' is very fashionable and means the same thing. Not everyone can be uptodate on the PC words du jour. (I was actually called racist for using the expression 'of colour' in the Guardian because white is also a colour, but it is used by POC themselves!).

I think they're all the same and can't stand poc, bame, coloured, black, etc either. I'm not just my skin. My question to the poster was wondering how they haven't heard about 'coloured' being a no-no for sometime now. I agree that not everyone is up-to-date but it's not everyday you come across someone who still uses that word online, let alone on mumsnet.

No wonder some people get confused when they don't use the 'current' term... You must keep up at all times. People tangle themselves in knots showing how woke they are.

@Gwenhwyfar I don’t think it’s unfair. It’s not about being PC. It’s a derogatory word and it’s 2021 I can appreciate that it stems from a certain generation... there’s no PC here. My Nan is white and at 74 it is what it is. She has had 3 mixed race children herself.

However in 2021 and people are saying coloured and your moaning it’s unfair on who? How dare you be upset and your NOT the one being referred to as “coloured”.

Are you definitely sure it’s unfair?

There’s no reason good enough for someone to be referred to a coloured use the correct terminology it’s not hard Black, Asian or whatever race the person is you need to use the correct term.

I cannot stand people of other races thinking they know all about others race and culture. I notice they are quick to have an option but yet when you tell them it’s incorrect they are ready to argue with you about your own race.

@Gwenhwyfar

"black women 5 times more likely to due in childbirth in the UK. Black men 8 times more likely to be stopped and searched. Black people more likely to be convicted of a crime than white counterparts who have committed the same crime. Use of the mental health act and restraint used disproportionately against black men. All this upon the generational trauma of hundreds of years of racism and slavery."

And six million Jews and other groups were exterminated. How is that not racist?

Jewish people experience antisemitism because they are Jewish. White people do not experience racism due to the colour of their skin.

@PoplarTrees

I was reading the thread waiting for someone to say "wah but racism has to be systemic and institutional and widespread to really be racism, if it's just against one person it's discrimination not racism".

This is the idea that the woke brigade have been pushing recently, and unsurprisingly it's taken off more in the US and lots of British consumers of US social media and so forth are trying to apply the same thing in the UK. But it goes against the simple definition of the word and convolutes the issue for seemingly no reason.

Dictionary definition of racism:

1 The unfair treatment of people who belong to a different race; violent behaviour towards them

2 Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group

3 The belief that some races of people are better than others

And so on. There is no major dictionary that states it has to be systemic and historic for it to be racist.

So yes, based on the dictionary definition rather than the tumblr argument, white people can experience racism. I experienced it a LOT from the south asian community when I was in a relationship with an Indian man in my early 20s.

White people really want to be oppressed so bad 😂 its embarrassing

@Afromeg

No, white people cannot truly experience racism.

Cannot truly experience it based on these specific reasons given or cannot experience it at all?

Because they cannot experience these specific acts of (systemic) racism, doesn't mean they cannot experience other forms of racism.

I just wholeheartedly disagree, I think this entire thread is a collection of white people bringing up minor misdemeanors against them by POC and the only purpose it serves is to minimise and disregard the truly massive impact and harm of racism against black people in this country.

If white people want to truly oppose racism gestures at all of this is not the way to do it