Can white people ever experience racism?

[LittleRedCourgettes]

Following a discussion on this topic with some students, I was reading this article and am interested to hear your honest thoughts on this question.....

https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/wherediddwegetttheideaathatonlyywhitepeopleecanbeeracist

White people really want to be oppressed so bad 😂 its embarrassing

What's embarrassing is that you don't understand the meaning of the word racism, or you're trying to change its meaning based on US identity politics. Try having an original thought once in a while.

I literally copy and pasted multiple dictionary definitions of the word, unequivocally demonstrating that white people can experience racism. That's the question in the OP, and that's the answer. Simple.

Yes. The council I work for admitted they are actively seeking black people for top level positions as they are under represented. No mention of who has the best skills, experience and qualifications. Incidentally, all races and cultures are very well represented in my large team.

@Falafelwrap I respectfully disagree.

What you have said is undeniably true, of course a white person will never experience any of what you have described, nor the oppression BAME people have faced for hundreds of years.

This does not however logically lead to the conclusion that a white person is incapable of experiencing racist discrimination. To suggest that one section of society is incapable of being discriminated against is a dangerous assumption and contravenes equality legislation.

[quote Scottishskifun]@Falafelwrap not by the dictionary or legal definition of what racism is. I completely agree that institutional racism is very evident and completely wrong across British society. But its also not correct to say that its white privilege to think that racism can occur across spectrums. Travellers are a group who regularly suffer from it and also at a institutional level. What's reported against polish and Eastern European communities etc. By legal and dictionary definition yes it's possible which is what the question was.[/quote]
Yes travellers receive all kinds of awful discrimination because of their traveller status, yes absolutely eastern Europeans are unfairly discriminated against and both groups can receive abuse which is inexcusable

But neither of these things happen because of the colour of their skin. If they are white (not all travellers or eastern Europeans are) they still have white privilege. It doesnt mean they have it easy, it just means their skin colour is not a factor.

@Chimeraforce are your council seeking black people because they are a minority as a whole though? That is not racism FFS.

@PoplarTrees

White people really want to be oppressed so bad 😂 its embarrassing

What's embarrassing is that you don't understand the meaning of the word racism, or you're trying to change its meaning based on US identity politics. Try having an original thought once in a while.

I literally copy and pasted multiple dictionary definitions of the word, unequivocally demonstrating that white people can experience racism. That's the question in the OP, and that's the answer. Simple.

Try reading a book besides the dictionary love. Strongly recommend "why I'm no longer talking to white people about race"

Why are all the illiterate and poorly educated people drawn to threads where the words are too long for them to understand? Is it so they can try to debate like normal people?
Oh hark at Socrates.

Try reading a book besides the dictionary love
Strongly recommend "why I'm no longer talking to white people about race"

I don't need to. I know the meaning of the word racism. Which means I know that white people can experience racism. It's really no more complex than that.

If white people want to truly oppose racism gestures at all of this is not the way to do it

Where does it say that's the purpose of the thread or any posts? The OP said they were interested to hear examples of racism towards white people and a number have responded with lived experience.

I agree travellers or Eastern Europeans aren’t being discriminated against based on being white. But there are lots of examples in this thread of white people living in an area where they are a minority have received abuse or been discriminated against. That is racism. Even when travelling in Japan I’ve seen signs on cafes saying non Japanese not welcome. It’s written in English so pretty confident they’re not only targeting other East Asians. I agree that globally people of colour have to deal with it far more frequently and far more severely but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist towards white people in some contexts too. One example that is very prevalent in the uk is people of ethnic origin being outraged and openly saying so when their child has a relationship with a person from outside of that community, often a white British person.

@Falafelwrap you really just tried to tell someone to educate themselves but exclude the use of a dictionary??!!

Here are some statements that can ALL be true simultaneously:

I recognise the existence of systemic, structural racism
I recognise that as a white women, I will never suffer oppression based on the colour of my skin
I acknowledge the need to listen to BAME people
I support proposed reforms
White people can experience racism

Yes, I used to get called white bitch on the bus home from school in Bradford pretty much every week

@Lycopodium8

Yes. The girls abused in Rotherham were targeted becuase they were white and considered easy

Interesting theory, which has been disproven over and over again.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/newcastle-grooming-gang-asian-white-girls-not-targeted-race-judge-court-sentencing-rape-sexual-exploitation-a7931276.html

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/944206/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf

Also just so you are aware, what you are saying is from the far right...

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/muslims-extremism-women-far-right-tommy-robinson-rape-a9143671.html

Yes travellers receive all kinds of awful discrimination because of their traveller status, yes absolutely eastern Europeans are unfairly discriminated against and both groups can receive abuse which is inexcusable

But neither of these things happen because of the colour of their skin. If they are white (not all travellers or eastern Europeans are) they still have white privilege. It doesnt mean they have it easy, it just means their skin colour is not a factor.

I agree with this and don't think it's really an example of racism but still disagree that white people cannot experience racism in any form.

I also agree that this 'debate' really takes away from the widespread racism many black and non-white people face but I also think that without calling it what it is, some people will continue to think it gives them leeway to do whatever they want to other people as long as it's seen as 'just prejudice, not racism', as if that makes it okay.

[quote ReggieKrait]@Falafelwrap I respectfully disagree.

What you have said is undeniably true, of course a white person will never experience any of what you have described, nor the oppression BAME people have faced for hundreds of years.

This does not however logically lead to the conclusion that a white person is incapable of experiencing racist discrimination. To suggest that one section of society is incapable of being discriminated against is a dangerous assumption and contravenes equality legislation.[/quote]
I agree with your statements, although I think this is often used as a way of deflecting racism felt by black people and travellers which is overwhelmingly negative. If we consistently need to have debates about whether white people can experience racism, a new word for the structural disadvantages of being born a traveller or black or mixed black person.

The complication of language and changing of meanings frustrates me. Why can’t racism mean prejudice based on skin colour? As it always has. Doesn’t mean racism against white people is a big widespread problem, it’s not! Racism by white people directed at people of colour is. I happily admit as a White person I haven’t experienced any racism and can’t experience systemic racism. I’m privileged in that regard.

But surely your new definitions must work across all situations: prejudice + power + historic maltreatment meaning racism leads to some weird outcomes, where some racist behaviour can’t be named as such. Ie. Someone from Africa experiencing a racial slur based on skin colour from someone from India, wouldn’t be racism by that definition? What would that be? Just prejudice based on race/skin colour? If only there was a simpler way of saying that.

It is against the law to discriminate against "race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin". Hence, discriminating against an English person in Scotland is unlawful. I have also been at the receiving end of such attacks.

No, white people cannot truly experience racism.

But they do experience it!

Cheers, folks for getting my post deleted... I gess it shows how politically correct MN really is.

Didn't report you @Sinuhe.

But if you know what politically correct means, can't help but wonder how you don't know about using the word 'coloured' or were you just being edgy/a rebel against PC?

I lived in a non-white country and, yes, there I experienced both racism and sexism. Apparently if you are white and in the UK you can never be a victim of racism - even if you don't get a job, or are excluded because of your skin colour/ culture. Interesting way of looking at it really.

@Sinuhe

Cheers, folks for getting my post deleted... I gess it shows how politically correct MN really is.

It shows that mumsnet doesn't want people using offensive racist terms. If you didn't know it was, then now you do. It's not like you got banned or anything. No need to get upset about it.

Can we at the very least agree that anyone that experiences bad treatment from people because of the colour of their skin has suffered racism and that we all hate racists equally?

We need to focus on the things that unite us all rather than argue semantics of wording.

This didn't need to turn into a peeing contest did it?