Can white people ever experience racism?

[LittleRedCourgettes]

Following a discussion on this topic with some students, I was reading this article and am interested to hear your honest thoughts on this question.....

https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/wherediddwegetttheideaathatonlyywhitepeopleecanbeeracist

OP, the answer is yes, but white people tend not to say that they've experienced it, because they are always shot down in flames by non white people, for daring to say that racism cuts both ways.

I think that if anybody goes to live in a country they were not born and raised in, the chances are they will experience racism, to a degree, no matter what colour their skin is. My theory is that humans are hard wired to have an innate tendency to mistrust outsiders, and some people are not able to override it (or choose not to).

I'd say there is a difference between racism and nationalism.

To continue to benefit from racism, knowingly and to do nothing about it is heinous

Are you benefiting from racism? And in what way? And if so, what are you planning to do about it?

I'm as black as they get. I don't 'have some loose goosey plans. I'm combating racism everyday. Sometimes I am so involved in anti racist activity I hardly have time for my day job. The only benefit I get from racism is firm thighs because I'm so up and about busy combating it.

Sounds interesting samosamo. So what sort of things do you get up to each day to combat racism?

The worst racism I have ever witnessed is by Asian people to a black person and it happened in every Asian country I visited from Japan to HK.

That was a real eye opener as up to that point I naiively thought racism was just a white/ black phenomenon.

Even in many countries is Africa and the ME they racially abuse people who are not from the same kin group/ tribe so it is world wide and there aren't many countries that are enlightened in trying to stamp it out through education and legislation.

Rubbish. People are not hard wired to distrust people who don't look like them. My children don't notice skin colour at all. However just last term a white child in my kid's class came to school saying her dad said no black children can come over to her house for playdates. Cue the old racism chat i had to give MY FIVE YEAR OLD. That's how it starts. We mess up our kids. They don't just start expressing 'natural innate racism '.

What rot?

Some oppressed peoples have 100s of years of experience of said oppression so they are justifiably distrusting. One can argue they'd be foolish not to be so.

Dear lord. I'm leaving this awful thread which was started because a white woman didn't like black women talking about their experiences of racism in their friendships among themselves and not bothering anybody, and so took to this board to call it racist. @LittleRedCourgettes a shameful move. Hang your head.

I won't be reading this gusgracefu

I won't be reading this disgraceful thread again.

I don't understand the point about minorities. I agree that minorities can be subject to institutional or societal racism, but the question is 'can white people experience racism'. The answer to that is of course they can. If someone makes comments/assumptions/holds negative views or discriminates against someone purely based on race then they are racist. This applies to all people from all races and backgrounds.

What's wrong with the thread samosamo? Seems like a good topic to discuss. Dont try and make it a thread about another thread.

It's a sad fact that humans are by nature tribal. Instinctively many people from the different tribes regard 'others' with suspicion and hostility. Any difference in colour, race, religion etc is a focus for discrimination. As humanity evolves these prejudices are reduced, but scratch the surface or create a period of stress, and the fear and distrust emerge, and display as hostility.

With advances in civilisation far more people at least question and dismiss their instinctive prejudices, but we have a long way to go still, and there will be examples of discrimination throughout all levels of society.

samosamo I read on a previous thread about racism that it's racist not to notice skin colour. Someone said, like you said about your children , that they don't notice skin colour. They were told that that is racist.

[quote samosamo]@PlanDeRaccordement

"You don’t need to feel any guilt over what people who shared same skin colour as you have done. Just let it go."

To continue to benefit from racism, knowingly and to do nothing about it is heinous.[/quote]
what would you suggest? I’m not white and I personally don’t think white people owe me anything. Racism is something so large that it can only change gradually by winning hearts and minds. The laws are already they saying everyone is equal. Hate crimes are on the books. But laws don’t stop illegal things like racism from happening. It only happens by each person changing themselves.

@Villetta

I'd say there is a difference between racism and nationalism.

Of course there is especially since nationalism is not discrimination against others in your nation based on different nationality. It actually means simply promoting the interests of your own nation...and all nations are today ethnically diverse. In fact, you can be nationalist AND in favour of foreign immigration.

I've just opened the thread and am going to read it with interest. My first reaction is that while subsets of white people (Irish, traveller, "white" Muslim, Easter European etc) can experience discrimination, it's not the same as racism- because if they keep quiet and dress the same as others, nobody will know their heritage. A BAME person can not hide their skin colour.
Off to read the thread and see if my views change...

@FlyingFaster the thing is that just as an example of how White people can be racist based on appearances - many Jewish people in Poland during the ww2 were betrayed by Poles or spotted by Germans because they looked different to non Jewish Poles. Eg maybe darker skin / black or dark brown hair or eyes / red curly hair / just a certain set of features etc.

This happened in many other countries too. It didn't matter if they converted to Christianity they still got murdered as the anti Jewish laws were based on race.

Also I grew up in a small town with lots of English Romanies & Irish travellers. Many (not all) have a certain difference of appearance facially / slightly darker skin colour, eye type. & I can generally spot them.
My g grandma was a Romany & she had dark skin & black hair. Many of my family took after her looks & have been abused.

Another g grandad was Jewish but my late Nan his daughter was a practicing Christian.
A Jewish man in her block of warden assisted flats really took to her & kept buying her presents!

But the other residents guessed he was Jewish even though he was not religious they took against him because he was a Jew & wouldn't talk to him.
So my Nan was his only friend.

Yet there was a Lithuanian couple in the block & they didn't get ignored as they were Christians.

Awful behaviour. This was only about 6 years ago.

@FlyingFaster

I've just opened the thread and am going to read it with interest. My first reaction is that while subsets of white people (Irish, traveller, "white" Muslim, Easter European etc) can experience discrimination, it's not the same as racism- because if they keep quiet and dress the same as others, nobody will know their heritage. A BAME person can not hide their skin colour. Off to read the thread and see if my views change...

While reading, also expand your thinking to not be Eurocentric. As in can white people face racism in Africa? China? India? Racism doesn’t just exist within the borders of white majority countries.

Yes they can but it is a deeply unpopular opinion on MN.

I was told to 'fuck off home' countless times as a child. My crime? Being English in Wales in the 70's. I know now the kids were just parroting their parents views but it is awful to be told to fuck off when you had no power over being there in the first place.

Loads of people saying that they've been targeted for being English in Scotland. I've been targeted in England for being Scots and Irish by people who cant tell the difference.

There are bigots in every country, the only difference is that generally it doesn't happen to the majority until they open their mouths.

[quote Tehmina23]@FlyingFaster the thing is that just as an example of how White people can be racist based on appearances - many Jewish people in Poland during the ww2 were betrayed by Poles or spotted by Germans because they looked different to non Jewish Poles. Eg maybe darker skin / black or dark brown hair or eyes / red curly hair / just a certain set of features etc.

This happened in many other countries too. It didn't matter if they converted to Christianity they still got murdered as the anti Jewish laws were based on race.

Also I grew up in a small town with lots of English Romanies & Irish travellers. Many (not all) have a certain difference of appearance facially / slightly darker skin colour, eye type. & I can generally spot them.
My g grandma was a Romany & she had dark skin & black hair. Many of my family took after her looks & have been abused.[/quote]
Yes, absolutely terrible

[quote samosamo]@PlanDeRaccordement

The racial bias (racism) related to prosecutions in the UK is important to consider. Just because BAME people are prosecuted for any crime more than white people, it does not mean they are actually committing them more.

The justice system in the UK is racist.[/quote]
Likewise, just because more end up stabbed and the perpetrators in prisoned, doesn't mean that white kids don't have knives or stab people, just that they don't get caught, because the system is racist. Is that how it goes?

samosamo
@PlanDeRaccordement

The racial bias (racism) related to prosecutions in the UK is important to consider. Just because BAME people are prosecuted for any crime more than white people, it does not mean they are actually committing them more. The justice system in the UK is racist.

Yes, the justice system is racist however when it comes to number of hate crimes it is more likely that white victims will not report than BAME victims.

So the bias isn’t what you think it is- numbers of hate crimes committed, but rather in the sentences given to the guilty, caught ones.

The U.K. justice system is racist in the sense that white people are less likely to get a custodial sentence and even if they do, it will be shorter than the sentences handed down to BAME for the same offence.

@Frogartist

samosamo I read on a previous thread about racism that it's racist not to notice skin colour. Someone said, like you said about your children , that they don't notice skin colour. They were told that that is racist.

But it's not true that those people don't notice skin colour, is it? They just claim not to notice it. It's like people who claim not to see class - they're denying that inequalities exist. (It's not really true that young children don't notice skin colour either, they just don't have any fixed prejudices about it).

I think many of the examples that have been given as racism towards white people are more to do with sexism (male predators seeing white women as easy targets), class ('I'm white and I grew up with nothing') or xenophobia. Though I know that the line between racism and xenophobia is a bit hard to draw.

I certainly have heard white people who are racist themselves perform mental gymnastics to describe really cringey things as being 'racist' against white people, so I would be quite reluctant to label something as such myself.