Poor, poor woman

[Mookie81]

Complete lack of support and nowhere to turn.
A terrible deed but I feel so sorry for her.
And where the fuck was her ex? Living in Spain while she was driven to despair.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9186243/Olga-Freemans-friends-reveal-agony-trapped-flat-son-loved-dearly.html

It also baffles me when people say 'well MY child has ....' as if they can compare their situation to this woman's like for like. None of us can do that because we don't know. Some may have a situation with a child that is incredibly difficult day after day - but they have some sort of support or respite. Some may do it on their own. But every single situation is different to the other.

What this woman did was undoubtedly horrific, no one could argue that, but my sympathy and is with both her and her poor little boy. No one else walked in her shoes but her.

And yes, the sleep deprivation/stress could easily have led to a stroke or heart attack which would have completely incapacitated her. Then we would have had the very tragic story of mother and child found dead in flat (or mother found unconcious, child found dead) but no-one would be suggesting if she really cared she would have overcome the brain haemorrage/heart stopping with Willpower and Motherly Love like they would have done.

@Pringlemonster, this mother is not going to "get off" anything. She has already pleaded guilty to manslaughter. But her sentence should certainly be mitigated by her personal circumstances including in particular the severe mental illness she had at the time. The fact that it was primarily caused by sleep deprivation and stress caused by being solely responsible for a severely disabled child without support does not mean her illness was any less severe. Why should that be ignored?

I doubt very much we’d so much sympathy for the killer if this thread were about the Newbury Park lockdown murders where a depressed father cut the throats of his two children.

He cheated on her when they were together, and walked out on them both right at the start. I know Katie Price is a complicated person, but the amount of criticism she has taken over the years for her looks/dubious choice in men/career choices etc has been astronomical compared to the (almost negligible) criticism of Dwight York for his complete abandoment of their disabled son.

This is so true.

@AlternativePerspective

Well, maybe the father walked away because he didn’t trust himself not to snap and potentially do the same thing.

Every time people defend a murderer like this they are yet again diminishing the worth of a disabled child. The poor mother driven to the edge until she snapped and murdered the child who was causing her so many problems and so much stress.

What does that say about the value we place on the lives of the disabled that the able-bodied should be pitied for murdering them?

Yes, this.

[quote Calmandmeasured1]**@Angel2702

Yet these families who have all support services withdrawn in lockdown are still not even eligible to form a support bubble. It is disgusting the way disabled have been abandoned.
In this case the mother could have formed a support bubble (but maybe didn't have anyone to form one with).You can form one where:
"you are a single adult living with one or more children who are under the age of 18 or were under that age on 12 June 2020"
www.gov.uk/guidance/making-a-support-bubble-with-another-household#who-can-make-a-support-bubble[/quote]
Her family are all in Poland.

She wanted the father more involved - there was a "row" about his level of involvement - but he seems to have declined. It would be interesting to find out whether the mother had requested to return to her family Poland - I certainly would have under the circumstances and her money would have gone much further than in London. That would have required the father's consent though.

@SoupDragon

How would you describe moving to another country, leaving your child and his mother to cope alone in incredibly challenging circumstances?

Do you know why he went to Spain? Do you know that he wasn't supporting them and seeing his son regularly? What is the timeframe? Did he skip out at the start of lockdown leaving her in those "challenging circumstances"? Indications from the Quality Newspaper are that she was coping before then. Did she at any point ask for his help? She certainly asked professionals for help - they are the ones who abandoned her.

He described his son as “loved to travel, visit art galleries and swim”.

Dylan was a wheelchair user with severe autism who was very distressed by the change in his routine when his school closed. Doesn’t sound much like a seasoned traveller who enjoyed hiking the Inca Trail with Devoted Daddy.

Dylan also had a degenerating eye condition so not sure that art galleries were quite for him.

I’m surprised there are no photos of Dad and Dylan in the press. Or maybe I’m not....

Nowhere does it say that the father abandoned his son. In fact, if anybody bothered to read to the end, it says the boy travelled with his father on work assignments.

That was pre-lockdown. More to the point, it specifically says the mother was getting zero respite. If the father was anywhere nearby, surely they would be taking it in turns to take care of him, so the other parent could get some sleep/function?

If you read the article @Arobase her diagnosis was depression with some psychotic features I'm well aware of the difference thanks ,what is disgraceful however is only quoting part of my post to suit your own narrative.

Shame the dad can't be prosecuted for neglect or abandonment. But no, he just swanned off to Spain.

@SoupDragon

How would you describe moving to another country, leaving your child and his mother to cope alone in incredibly challenging circumstances?

Do you know why he went to Spain? Do you know that he wasn't supporting them and seeing his son regularly? What is the timeframe? Did he skip out at the start of lockdown leaving her in those "challenging circumstances"? Indications from the Quality Newspaper are that she was coping before then. Did she at any point ask for his help? She certainly asked professionals for help - they are the ones who abandoned her.

Did she at any point ask for his help?

What, you have to make a formal request that a child’s father steps up to parent his own child now?

@BrumBoo

While I have sympathy for Olga, it’s not reason to excuse her murdering a 10yr old boy. It sounds very much like it was carefully planned and not a moment of insanity.

Oh another person who knows better than the doctors and court, from their armchair diagnosis. We can all carefully plan things when suffering from extreme sleep deprivation on top of a mental breakdown after all.

? How can I know “better than the court” when she hasn’t even been tried yet? And I do not contest the doctors report my but doctors don’t decide guilty or not guilty, the courts do.

God @PlanDeRaccordement! There is another way of seeing all of that.

She had sleeping pills - couldn't take them for the purpose intended, to give her some sleep because she was the sole carer of her child

She loved him. Even in psychosis didn't want him to suffer so made up some weird, sensible only to her, plan to kill him in his sleep.

Only 2 people in the flat... because she was alone, his dad was elsewhere, all services withdrawn

His behaviours are consistent with the conditions he was diagnosed with! And there detailed information about how she killed him but no mention of other injuries. Do you think the DM would miss out on any salacious information?

It's fucking awful position for someone to be in and both of them deserve sympathy... but that doesn't mean condoning her actions. Just an understanding of the extent to which psychosis can change a person's thinking.

Save your wrath for the systemic failings...

@PlanDeRaccordement

I doubt very much we’d so much sympathy for the killer if this thread were about the Newbury Park lockdown murders where a depressed father cut the throats of his two children.

If he killed them as part of a family annihilation the purpose of which is to spite a mother who was escaping control by leaving him, no. That's the most common scenario with such murders.

If he was mentally ill, yes. Huge sympathy and horror at the sadness of it.

'They were both let down so badly'

Yes, tragic and so distressing to read.

Why was his school shut though, ours are open to vulnerable dc, why was his respite care removed? Essential even in a pandemic. Of course many struggle with restrictions but in an extreme situation like this why weren't his keyworkers/paediatric community staff providing support for his dm?

Btw, the article says Olga had depression with psychotic symptoms. This is not even close to a diagnosis of Psychosis.

BTW any symptom of psychosis is the same as being psychotic at that moment... diagnosis takes months of close observation and usually hospitalisation after an unusual event....

For goodness sake, will people stop trying to claim this was murder? The prosecution has accepted that it wasn't.

I expect there will be multiple deletions, as happened to me. Criticism of the father isn't allowed.

Her family are all in Poland

That should say "Russia".

She was completely isolated from family.

It sounds very much like it was carefully planned and not a moment of insanity

Let’s leave it to the professionals to assess that shall we ? Hung by the Daily Mail , jeez 🙄

@PlanDeRaccordement, she will be sentenced in February as they have accepted her plea of diminished responsibility due to psychosis.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

God *@PlanDeRaccordement*! There is another way of seeing all of that.

She had sleeping pills - couldn't take them for the purpose intended, to give her some sleep because she was the sole carer of her child

She loved him. Even in psychosis didn't want him to suffer so made up some weird, sensible only to her, plan to kill him in his sleep.

Only 2 people in the flat... because she was alone, his dad was elsewhere, all services withdrawn

His behaviours are consistent with the conditions he was diagnosed with! And there detailed information about how she killed him but no mention of other injuries. Do you think the DM would miss out on any salacious information?

It's fucking awful position for someone to be in and both of them deserve sympathy... but that doesn't mean condoning her actions. Just an understanding of the extent to which psychosis can change a person's thinking.

Save your wrath for the systemic failings...

First, she did/does not have Psychosis. A diagnosis of depression with psychotic symptoms is not a diagnosis of Psychotic depression or Psychosis.

Secondly, the DM spends 95% of its words talking about how loving a mother she is and how much she loved and adored her son. So yes, I think they would definitely not mention anything that would upset the narrative they are clearly painting.

I haven’t seen any autopsy reports? Have you? So until we do, no idea if there was a pattern of abuse or not. It can’t be ruled out.

Btw, she was convicted of murder by the courts yesterday. It says she didn’t cooperate with police as she answered “no comment” to most questions.
news.met.police.uk/news/woman-convicted-in-relation-to-death-of-her-son-419569

@PlanDeRaccordement, you plainly have no understanding of mental illness. Your suggestion that planning pursuant to delusional beliefs means that the person cannot possibly be mentally ill demonstrates that.