Woman thrown out of Sainsbury's for not wearing a mask.

[Viviennemary]

When asked why she wasn't wearing one she told the police they were not allowed to challenge her or ask about her disability. (wrong apparently). She said she'd be taking them to court. Police have criticised ministers for giving conflicting advice. I think it's time this was cleared up. It's far too vague. So seems like people do need some proof of the reasons they can't wear a mask.

@LangClegsInSpace those rules really couldn’t be any clearer.

@NikeDeLaSwoosh - Why would it be unlawful?

@SoupDragon

There is no onus on her to prove her disability.

Being an anti-masker is not a disability.

We don't actually know if she has a disability or not realistically the papers could be reporting her as a self proclaimed anti masker just to froth people up

Anyone wanting to ostracise and lock up people with mental health issues should quite frankly stay at home covid or not. What does it feel like to hate disabled people? The Nazis had a similar view I seem to recall.

Leaving Godwin out of it, I wonder if you have a plan for those so disabled by health anxiety over non-mask wearers being allowed into shops, that they are forced to stay at home all the time?

I doubt the manager calls the Police for every person who doesn't wear a mask, so I suspect lot more went on than the short video we see.

[quote Peppafrig]@LangClegsInSpace those rules really couldn’t be any clearer.[/quote]
If people are arguing they apply to anti-maskers, then all the more reason the Government needs to act and sort this out.

@DGRossetti

We have to go shopping because it's already expensive enough being disabled, and can't afford the premium you pay for click and collect or delivery every week. (Although that's irrelevant since we haven't been able to get a slot since April. But that's another story.)

DW has to come with me because I am her carer, and if she has a fall when I am out ....

We both wear masks though.

If it helps I called Sainsbury's customer services at the start of the first lockdown, my husband is mid 70s, diabetic and disabled so I was really worried. I've had a delivery every week since. I paid for a £30 delivery pass which means I can get free deliveries on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays for a year, I think I have to spend £25.

I've found it cost effective in the long run, I'm saving loads on petrol. The other good thing for me is I can take my time and compare value e.g. is the £2 pack better value than the £1.25 pack. I know it gives you a cost per item/100ml or whatever but it is so much easier on line.

I sometimes get a delivery from Iceland to fill the freezer up, they seem to have loads of slots where I live and I haven't had to pay for deliveries, again there is a minimum amount you have to spend but I can't remember what it is.

I hope this might be helpful.

I wonder if you have a plan for those so disabled by health anxiety over non-mask wearers being allowed into shops, that they are forced to stay at home all the time?

Good question, @Haffiana.

@SummerBlondey

If you can't wear a mask, wear a visor. Job done.

No, because the visors don't work the same. They don't protect other people. Plus, many of the same people will say they can't wear a visor either.

I suspect that she had been in the store multiple times attempting the stunt so she could film it- she was probably already flagged and this time they had enough and called the police, she got her filming and her piece in the daily mail which is ulimately what she wanted.

I agree OP and I think it is just not clear enough.

People who are exempt for medical reasons shouldn't be expected to wear one and should be able to do their shopping or whatever in peace, not being hassled by the general public or anyone else.

But whether they should have to be able to "prove" that exemption if asked by a police officer or security staff, seems very unclear. It's also probably a difficult thing to decide - people are entitled to their privacy, but you could also get lots of people taking advantage and saying they are exempt when they are not.

So, I don't envy the people who have to make these decisions. But whatever it is, I just wish it was clear!

WanderingMilly
If you are genuinely exempt from wearing a mask, then don't go into shops where lots of other people are. Get someone to do your shopping for you or use home delivery or whatever. Just because you're exempt from mask wearing doesn't mean you won't spread COVID, have some thought for others.

For those who just don't want to wear a mask, I have no patience with you and your 'rights'. Why do your rights take priority over everyone else's to be safe? Go and exercise your right down a country lane where there's nobody around and you can walk around with no mask without causing danger. Don't parade it in shops where you are compromising the safety of others. And great that the shop will take issue and throw you out...

THIS ^

Yes - she was calm, but she was belligerent and deliberately confrontational.

I think the officers didn't engage because they were being filmed and didn't want out-of-context footage/ comments going viral.

The store had told her "No mask, no service". This is THEIR right. They can refuse service to anyone - it's not on the grounds of disability, it's on the grounds of refusing to wear a mask and protect others.

To the person who said The sad thing is there was probably a battered wife or a mugging victim who didn't get an audience with police after their attack because they're too busy implementing 1984 in Sainsbury's. Awful. I'm genuinely terrified with the way the world is going

It was this WOMAN who has caused the possible "battered wife or mugging victim" not to "get an audience" - the police have to respond to calls. It's their job. If she hadn't gone off insisting on what she regarded as HER rights, they wouldn't have been called out.

Police do prioritise calls, so if someone had needed immediate attention then, they would have got it. Her offence, putting other people at risk as it did, and setting a precedent for other anti-maskers to go in, was obviously important.

It might actually save her from serious injury, as feelings are running high, and I could see a situation arising where people who refuse to wear masks start to get assaulted by other shoppers.

It would be great to see the moments before the police arrived on film - wonder why she didn't film them?

[quote MilkTwoSugarsThanks]@NikeDeLaSwoosh - Why would it be unlawful?[/quote]
Have a look at the excellent post by @LangClegsInSpace

@LangClegsInSpace because hysterical people don’t want to understand, they like to assert their superiority by joining the baying masses. Nearly all the government guidance is easy to understand, my averagely intelligent 8 year old understands it.

For years I always wondered about who the hell would give up a Catholic to the Protestant government, who would join the mob round an old lady’s house crying witch, who would inform on a little girl hiding behind a book case? Unfortunately I now totally understand that given certain circumstances it’s 99% of people. Willing to sacrifice others to distance themselves and prove themselves.

The shops and the police are being left in an impossible position. I feel sorry for them.

People who are exempt for medical reasons shouldn't be expected to wear one and should be able to do their shopping or whatever in peace, not being hassled by the general public or anyone else.

Yes, but they should also act like a responsible adult and keep their distance from everyone else, i.e. other shoppers and staff. Having an exemption doesn't stop them spreading covid if they have it.

Ds is exempt from wearing a mask and can’t manage one unfortunately.
At the moment he doesn’t go anywhere but to hospital appointments anyway but we have never had any issue with a polite “his disabilities mean he can’t wear one”

People like the woman in this case who it seems doesn’t actually have a disability which means she can’t wear a mask are the ones who are going to create much bigger issues for those who genuinely can’t.

If people are arguing they apply to anti-maskers, then all the more reason the Government needs to act and sort this out.

I have no idea whether this woman has a disability that prevents her from wearing a mask, or if she's an anti-masker, or both.

Some people are arguing that all those who say they are exempt should be required to provide proof. That goes against the law and government guidance.

Some people are arguing that all those who are exempt should be refused entry. That goes against the law and government guidance.

If people want the law and guidance changed then the best thing to do is write to your MP about it, not stay stuck in this endless rage cycle. It creates an intimidating, hostile environment for people who are genuinely unable to wear a mask and it gives far too much attention to the anti-maskers - who are largely doing it for attention. Why are people feeding that?

Regardless of Covid, shops are private premises.
They can refuse anyone entry for any reason.
This has always been the case.

If they want to have a no mask/ no entry ' policy, they can.

@NikeDeLaSwoosh

Then the law is an ass and helps no-one.

Everyone has to make sacrifices to protect the NHS and save lives unless you self-identify as being disabled, in which case suck it up buttercup.

The problem is the "self-identify" bit.

@LangClegsInSpace The guidance is interesting but don't you think it puts the shop owners/managers in a difficult position in relation to providing a safe work place for their staff? That is a legal responsibility for employers.

I wonder if those who are against showing proof are also against showing proof to get a blue badge or showing proof to get carer entry into places? Sometimes we do need to show proof of disability if we want reasonable adjustment to be made. Not to Joe Bloggs of course but to staff of the place you are using then it’s a fair request

We don't actually know if she has a disability or not realistically the papers could be reporting her as a self proclaimed anti masker just to froth people up

Someone posted a screenshot of her Twitter account further down. If this is her, she is an anti masker.

My understanding from watching the video was that the police were more asking her to leave because Sainsbury's had decided to not serve her. The female officer didn't read the print out because she said "mask or no mask they don't wish to serve you".

I suspect police were called in this instance because she caused a fuss, shops don't tend to call the police in for every person not wearing a mask, so why were they called in this situation. There is probably more to this than just the mask.