Woman thrown out of Sainsbury's for not wearing a mask.

[Viviennemary]

When asked why she wasn't wearing one she told the police they were not allowed to challenge her or ask about her disability. (wrong apparently). She said she'd be taking them to court. Police have criticised ministers for giving conflicting advice. I think it's time this was cleared up. It's far too vague. So seems like people do need some proof of the reasons they can't wear a mask.

probably the same as the woman who was allegedly arrested for sitting on a bench - in fact she was a filthy anti-vax QANon type who had driven a long way to make trouble.

Sainsbury's do click and collect and there are plenty of slots for that, no need for a mask. Or you can get NHS volunteers/local volunteers to shop for you if you are unable to wear a mask. I'm just back from my shopping run for myself and others because I can wear a mask.

so I call bullshit on this one.

@WanderingMilly

If you are genuinely exempt from wearing a mask, then don't go into shops where lots of other people are. Get someone to do your shopping for you or use home delivery or whatever. Just because you're exempt from mask wearing doesn't mean you won't spread COVID, have some thought for others.

For those who just don't want to wear a mask, I have no patience with you and your 'rights'. Why do your rights take priority over everyone else's to be safe? Go and exercise your right down a country lane where there's nobody around and you can walk around with no mask without causing danger. Don't parade it in shops where you are compromising the safety of others. And great that the shop will take issue and throw you out...

This. Treat others as you want to be treated - with respect.

Not wearing a mask is truly selfish. We don’t wear it for ourselves but to protect others.

Yes you do get Muppets saying they're exempt but I think they're more likely to be like Laurence Fox and buy an unofficial badge

Has that wanker bought himself a badge?

He just proves on a daily basis what a complete tool he is!

How about each supermarket works out it's own system.

Sainsbury's (for example) could say that someone claiming an exemption could apply for a Sainsbury's Pass. They probably have medically trained staff (like Occ Health) who could say yes or no. Probably save them a lot of hassle in the long run.

As a disabled person, I find it hilarious that she thinks nobody can ask her for evidence that she is disabled. In order to show someone has discriminated you have to show they knew or could reasonably assume that she was disabled .She doesn't have to share confidential information but nobody has to let her onto private property either.

This 'doesn't need to be cleared up once and for all'. This isn't the police's fault. It's the fault of the anti-maskers/anti-vaxxers/Covid- deniers.
And yy genuine people with medical exemptions are going to suffer but that's not the fault of the police or the shops or MNers. It's the fault of the many who are trying to exploit the system because they don't give a toss about their own health, or the health of supermarket workers or fellow shoppers.
I always wonder why these threads aren't complaining about the people that have created this situation by pretending they're exempt when really they mean they're too special to follow rules.
I understand this makes life more difficult for people who are genuine. But, it's not the rule that's the problem. It's the widespread idiocy and selfishness.

People suggesting wearing a visor, you do realise that this mainly protects the wearer from from others and not others from you. This will make little difference to the reason why people are saying these people should be excluded.

I don't understand how she thinks she is going to get a successful court outcome without sharing and proving her disability.

Ultimately, she could have just done the same thing in the video without wasting a shed load of public money and police time (plus her doctors time).

I have a letter stating I am exempt - I still wear a mask. There's a lot of people who are claiming they are exempt and saying doctors won't write them letters, but actually, I do think for those people who are truly exempt they have been provided letters to save this kind of kerfuffle.

What a fucking waste of resources.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

Yes you do get Muppets saying they're exempt but I think they're more likely to be like Laurence Fox and buy an unofficial badge

Has that wanker bought himself a badge?

He just proves on a daily basis what a complete tool he is!

He sure has. He was tweeting a photo of him wearing it with the hashtag "anxiety"

This is the woman in question.
Her Twitter profile says Time to take off the mask,open up your business,stop complying & fight for your kids.

She is an anti- masker, covid denier and anti- vaxxer. It was a stunt and she filmed herself.

If you can't wear a mask, WEAR A VISOR...or stay out of the f....cking shops and protect the rest of us.
LOOK AT THE HOSPITALS and get someone else to do your shopping.
Simples.

Good. Anyone not wearing a mask should stay at home.

The woman is technically right. However she should have downloaded and printed out the exemption card.

Thanks BearGrylls, that is interesting.

@BareGrylls I think she may have an issue with her court case once that goes out... I wonder if the DM have that link?

@bearandowl

The woman is technically right. However she should have downloaded and printed out the exemption card.

Is it OK for anyone to print out an exemption card or are you expected to actually have an exemption? Is it a system where they assume people won't abuse it.

@Icanseegreenshoots

Sainsburys were right, and she can 'take them to court' but it will be thrown out. She is being unreasonable to expect to be allowed to go in without proof of her disability. She knew the rules.

There are ways of providing proof, so she should have considered them first or made arrangements to click and collect outside (our M&S offer this) so she does not need a mask.

She is clearly another chancer -whether she is disabled or not she does not have the right to potentially kill other people.

The rules clearly state that it is unlawful to ask for proof of disability.

There is no onus on her to prove her disability.

You are the one who hasn’t grasped the rules.

@Choconuttolata

People suggesting wearing a visor, you do realise that this mainly protects the wearer from from others and not others from you. This will make little difference to the reason why people are saying these people should be excluded.

I get this. However when I see someone with a visor I think at least they're trying, which makes me think their reason for not wearing a mask is probably genuine. Plus it's more of a hassle to carry a visor around than a mask so I think if this was a rule then some of the idiots refusing to wear masks might decide actually a mask is better than a visor.

Obviously some people can't wear either for genuine reasons.

@catlovingdoctor

Good. Anyone not wearing a mask should stay at home.

Anyone wanting to ostracise and lock up people with mental health issues should quite frankly stay at home covid or not. What does it feel like to hate disabled people? The Nazis had a similar view I seem to recall.

@MilkTwoSugarsThanks

How about each supermarket works out it's own system.

Sainsbury's (for example) could say that someone claiming an exemption could apply for a Sainsbury's Pass. They probably have medically trained staff (like Occ Health) who could say yes or no. Probably save them a lot of hassle in the long run.

Because this would be unlawful.

That’s why.

Ffs.

The 'reasonable excuses' in the legislation specifically refer to people who cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a disability within the meaning of section 6 of the Equality Act 2010. Also to those accompanying or providing assistance to someone who relies on lipreading.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/regulation/4

The explanatory memorandum that accompanies this legislation states:

7.6 Exemptions from this requirement exist for members of the public with a “reasonable excuse” for not wearing a face covering. A non-exhaustive list of circumstances in which a person has a reasonable excuse is set out in regulation 4, and generally relate to medical and equalities grounds. ... Nobody who has a reasonable excuse as set out in regulation 4 and is therefore not wearing a face covering should be prevented from visiting a shop or supermarket or other setting covered by these Regulations.

And also:

12.2 The Department has considered the fact that some people may be deterred from visiting the relevant settings where these Regulations apply due to them being required to wear a face covering either because they cannot source a suitable face covering or they have protected characteristics (e.g. a disability) which makes it difficult to wear a face covering ... The Department has also included a range of exemptions to ensure that this policy does not unfairly discriminate against those with protected characteristics. Furthermore, the policy will be supported by a communications campaign that will make clear that some people are exempt from these regulations and people should not be challenged by members of the public for not wearing a face covering. (my bold)

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/memorandum/contents

So it's very clear that the government intends the exemptions to function, in part, as a reasonable adjustment to prevent unfair discrimination against disabled people.

The government guidance on face coverings says:

If you have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering:

- you do not routinely need to show any written evidence of this
- you do not need show an exemption card

This means that you do not need to seek advice or request a letter from a medical professional about your reason for not wearing a face covering.

However, some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign.

Carrying an exemption card or badge is a personal choice and is not required by law.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own#exemptions

The government guidance for shops says:

Some people don’t have to wear a face covering including for health, age or equality reasons.

Customers are permitted to remove face coverings for the purposes of identification or when speaking with people who rely on lip reading, facial expressions and clear sound for communication.

Some people don’t have to wear a face covering including for health, age or equality reasons. No one who is exempt from wearing a face covering should be denied entry if they are not wearing one.

www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19/shops-and-branches#shops-6-2

The Cabinet Office have issued further guidance on face covering exemptions to supermarkets. The guidance says:

4: Once an individual has said they are not able to/exempt, you must take their word and allow them to continue. A verbal confirmation alone is enough. You must not ask for proof of their medical exemption and it is not essential they show any form of exemption card at any point. (their emphasis)

www.frylaw.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/guidance_for_face_covering_exemptions.pdf

What is that people are still failing to understand?

@Gwenhwyfar

"Are we just really unlucky in this country with the number of people who are unable to wear a mask for up to 20 or 30 minutes, or do all counties have similar numbers?"

No, they don't. The whole exemptions thing is just 'not a thing' where I am on the continent. Last time I said this I got angry replies that there must be disabled people where I live who can't wear the mask. Maybe there are, but I've never seen one in the supermarket and it's never spoken about.

Compliance outside (we have to wear them outside as well) is patchy with some people putting them on their chin etc. and some small shops are bad at enforcement, but my local supermarket has a security guard by the door. I've never seen someone without a mask there and I'm pretty sure they just wouldn't be let in.

So yes, there is something strange going on that the UK has so many more people with these disabilities.

That is interesting. I'm not sure what to make of it all to be honest.

when I see someone with a visor I think at least they're trying

I do too. I see someone doing their best.

It's not 'technically correct' to lie, as she'll find out in court.

There is no onus on her to prove her disability.

Being an anti-masker is not a disability.