Woman thrown out of Sainsbury's for not wearing a mask.

[Viviennemary]

When asked why she wasn't wearing one she told the police they were not allowed to challenge her or ask about her disability. (wrong apparently). She said she'd be taking them to court. Police have criticised ministers for giving conflicting advice. I think it's time this was cleared up. It's far too vague. So seems like people do need some proof of the reasons they can't wear a mask.

[DecemberSun]

Wearing a mask is to protect other people, that's why shops insist on it.

If you genuinely can't then get your groceries delivered, rather than put others at risk. That's what I would do.

[IrmaFayLear]

Frankly, who absolutely cannot wear a mask for five minutes? There may be a tiny number of traumatised-reason people, but if someone’s breathing is so bad they can’t breathe at all, then I question why they’re going round a supermarket.

I have breathing problems; at the hospital you betcha I wheezed and puffed in a mask. And go to a supermarket? No thanks! If someone has a bad-enough breathing problem to be mask exempt, then they will be on the shielding list and therefore can get a supermarket delivery.

[SerendipityJane]

It's illegal to ask someone to prove that they're disabled.

Has anyone told the DWP ?

[Sceptre86]

That woman cared more about making a statement and was confrontational. Why should Sainsbury's workers have to put up with that?

[SquirtleSquad]

There will be far more to this than the snippets on social media and in the daily mail. We haven't seen the events leading up to this very short video clip. Was she abuse to staff, was she rude, was she not adhering to social distancing?

We don't know (yet) but i would think it's similar to the "poor old lady sitting peacefully on a bench at Bournemouth beach being arrested and taken away" who was in fact a complete twat who had already been served a removal order by police to go home from the town earlier in the day after coming down from 20+ miles away to protest and was being antisocial.

[rosie1959]

Bungleandgeorge I am sure you are right but what I was saying was do they allow people to say I am not wearing a mask because.......
Love the user name by the way

[91divoc]

One of my friend doesn't wear mask and she doesn't have a disability, apparently it ruins her makeup! I can imagine there are people out there that challenges this a lot. I had a go at DH when all the rules were relaxed in the summer and said you still have to wear a mask to protect people. Plus the shops have their own rules and it's up to them who they want to serve in their premises. The woman was being unreasonable. I have asthma and I wear glasses so imagine the irritation it causes to me, I wear a double mask when in shops as I don't want to deal with peoples stares let alone being thrown out!

[Pippa234]

Honestly I think she's a massive attention seeker.
You should have to prove you can't wear one because too many people take the piss.

If you genuinely couldnt wear a mask for 30 minutes or less which I think in theory is unlikely to most people who claim they can't, then a person who wasn't confrontational and didn't want their 5 minutes of fame would bring along relevent documents to show this.

The police dealt with her really well.
I saw another video where a woman was refusing to wear a mask and abusing staff.

These people are a joke, they know they are going to be asked why they arent wearing a mask and want to kick up a fuss recording people for their 5 minutes of fame.

[LastTrainEast]

It's a pity that she didn't get someone to shop for her or have it delivered rather than risk harm to others.

Rights and how we are treated matter. Apparently the rights of other people and our responsibility to them as people do not.

[IamGateshead]

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

I am so fucking sick of this

Little Stasi wannabes picking on women (it's always women) and people backing them up!!

She's right - she has NO obligation to share her information. I thought she behaved brilliantly. She was calm, she knew her rights, and the prick police officers refused to even look at the law she was presenting them (doesn't surprise me as they seem to like to make it up). I hope she does sue them.

The sad thing is there was probably a battered wife or a mugging victim who didn't get an audience with police after their attack because they're too busy implementing 1984 in Sainsbury's. Awful. I'm genuinely terrified with the way the world is going.

And shame on those of you who think this is OK.

Oh shush. She could just pop a mask on for her shop couldn't she? most of these "exampt" groups really are just attention seeking.

[user1497207191]

@Sceptre86

Some of us who work either in retail or in my case a pharmacy have to work. We can't work from home. I don't think it is too much to ask that if I can wear a mask for 8 hours straight to protect you and everyone else who walks through the door that you can't do the same for me for 15 minutes (or less). Yes there is an issue for those that are disabled but we have online shopping, click and collect services, smaller local shops where you are less likely to encounter people and put them or yourself at risk. There are volunteer services that can help you to do your shopping ot get your medicines too. It is the I will do what I bloody well want brigade that annoy me without a care to anyone else. We all have to make sacrifices at the moment and accept that we are not living life normally at the moment. My uncle died of covid-19 at the weekend so maybe that is making me more tetchy.

Exactly - well said. That's exactly why a shop in our village has closed its doors and is now only serving through a hatch. The owners felt at risk by the sheer number of non mask wearers (who typically didn't follow limits on numbers in the shop at a time either), and didn't feel that it was a safe environment for their staff either (which is a legal requirement for them). So because of the stupid minority, all their customers now have to wait outside. Our fish and chip shop did the same last April when they reopened after lockdown, but they only do pre-orders via an app, so no "walk up" customers at all - they, too, serve through a hatch. Our butchers (owned and run by an elderly gent) has not allowed customers in his shop since last March - he, likewise takes orders by phone, and does a socially distanced handover through his door which he only opens a foot or so (and which he has had to put a piece of wood to act as a stopper because some idiot customers tried to push it open further to get in!).

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

For as long as we are all expected to accept lockdowns, businesses going bust, people losing livelihoods, jobs and homes, plunging thousands into poverty, banning people from seeing their own families, fucking up our children's education and isolating them from their peers with the knowledge that they will be the ones paying for all this "for the greater good"...

... it's about time people with genuine mask wearing exemptions accepted telling a few supermarket managers why.

[jessym]

Sainsbury’s should have just told the woman that they were refusing to serve her without giving a reason. ‘Right of admission reserved’, as the sign outside every nightclub states.

[Hazelnutlatteplease]

Yep let's isolate disabled people even more shall we?

The longer this pandemic goes on the more isolated anyone disabled and/or vulnerable is going to get.

The more it spreads the longer the pandemic lasts. The more people wear masks the harder it is for pandemic to spread.

Not Wearing masks is contributing to the isolation of those with disabilities.

Someone's medical history should not be up for scrutiny

Everytime I claim carers at an entry to a day out my sons diagnosis are under scrutiny.
Everytime I request a ride access pass at a theme park my DS' diagnosis is under scrutiny (evidence at my expense)
Everytime we park in a disabled bay his evidence has to be put in the window of the car for any passer by to scrutinise (and they do) (and I have to pay for this evidence too)
Everytime he requests DLA his entire medical history is under scrutiny.

Why on earth should mask wearing be any different?

[donquixotedelamancha]

under the disabilities act they do not have to show proof of disability and those who fail to treat a disability as a protected characteristic can be fined up to £9000. So from that respect she was correct.

To those saying Sainburys are breaking the law:

If Sainburys are found to be unreasonably discriminating against disabled people then this is indeed unlawful, not illiegal and they can face sanctions. This is a civil matter and nothing to do with why the police removed her. Police removed her for tresspass, they had no choice but to do so.

There are two reasons why I don't think Sainburys would be subject to fines or lose law suits:

1. I doubt any judge will think requiring people to disclose basic information about the basis for their exemption from criminal law (the requirement to wear a mask) is is disproportionate or unreasonable under the EA 2010.

1. There is a specific exemption in the EA 2010 for public health measures.

[donquixotedelamancha]

The above doesn't mean I disagree with her point.

[user1497207191]

@SerendipityJane

It's illegal to ask someone to prove that they're disabled.

Has anyone told the DWP ?

OK, I'll park in a disabled bay next time I go shopping. When someone asks where the blue badge is, I'll tell them I don't need to prove I'm disabled. I'm sure they'll waive the parking fine won't they?

[bobbojobbo]

under the disabilities act they do not have to show proof of disability and those who fail to treat a disability as a protected characteristic can be fined up to £9000. So from that respect she was correct

To be protected by the disabilities act you need to actually have a disability. You cannot fine someone for not using a disability as a protected characteristic when the disability has not been proven to exist.

[CleverCatty]

Good luck with her taking them to court - let's hope she doesn't get legal aid for this.

She's probably already done the DM sad face story...

[JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]

It's not illegal to ask someone why they're disabled, but equally they are not legally obliged to tell you why they're disabled - this is in the context of COVID.

Blue badges fall under entirely different legislation. But still you wouldn't (I hope, not sure given how much ableism I see about) ask a person to validate why they have a blue badge - it's not illegal to ask, but they don't have to answer.

[JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]

@bobbojobbo

under the disabilities act they do not have to show proof of disability and those who fail to treat a disability as a protected characteristic can be fined up to £9000. So from that respect she was correct

To be protected by the disabilities act you need to actually have a disability. You cannot fine someone for not using a disability as a protected characteristic when the disability has not been proven to exist.

No one has to prove their disability though - ships by and large and treading dangerous legal ground by booting out people they don't know for certain aren't disabled.

[Blacktothepink]

Good!

[Nomaigai]

Sainsbury's has a right to refuse service, it's nothing to do with the mask law. However my understanding of the law is (and I am not an expert so may be wrong!) that Sainsbury's has to make reasonable adjustments for her disability. I don't see how Sainsbury's can be expected to determine what reasonable adjustments would be if she won't tell them what the disability is.

Using the seatbelt example above, if a person wanted to have driving lessons but refused to wear a seatbelt, is it not reasonable for the driving instructor to expect to be told why so that he could assess whether he could safely provide his services with an adjustment to the set up? Not wearing a seatbelt does impact more than just the person not wearing one - they could be flung across a car in an accident.

I agree normally people with hidden disabilities shouldn't be asked to explain themselves but this is a health and safety point.

As I said, I may have the law wrong!

[Ihatefish]

Yes let’s just shut everyone with a mental health issue who can’t wear a mask in their homes, let’s isolate them from society, let’s tell them they are not fit to mix with normal people. Yes let’s tell rape victims they have blood on their hands, let’s tell people with severe anxiety that they are selfish cunts. In fact why don’t we just reopen mental asylums and lock them up because let’s face it nothing exists now apart from covid.

The world is becoming more and more like the Third Reich. I’m seriously considering building a secret room behind a book case in my house. It’s becoming increasingly clear that mental health issues are not acceptable to the general public, it’s ok to vilify and ostracise people with mental health issues. Maybe consider suicide is far more deadly than most cases of covid. Sticking a sunflower lanyard round someone’s neck is not dissimilar to sticking a yellow star on someone. I bet all the do gooders that think people with mental illnesses should be kept away from the Uber menschen mask wearers never considered that they would turn into those people from the history books.

[user1497207191]

@MilkTwoSugarsThanks

For as long as we are all expected to accept lockdowns, businesses going bust, people losing livelihoods, jobs and homes, plunging thousands into poverty, banning people from seeing their own families, fucking up our children's education and isolating them from their peers with the knowledge that they will be the ones paying for all this "for the greater good"...

... it's about time people with genuine mask wearing exemptions accepted telling a few supermarket managers why.

Fully agree. I would imagine very few people with genuine exemptions would object to telling an official why. They'll already be accustomed to explaining their disability to wherever they expect (and deserve) different treatment such as venues, car parks, all manner of service providers, etc., who indeed have a legal responsibility not to discriminate against them. What we're dealing with here are the people who simply don't want to wear a mask for no good reason other than awkwardness. There's another online forum I used to use which is almost dominated by anti-maskers where there are loads of comments on being "muzzled" etc, with posters giving each other tips on how to respond when they're challenged etc. I really despair when I see that kind of thing.